Earvana now offering drop-in nuts for angled & straight pegheads

[tfarny]

http://www.earvana.com/products.htm
No screws like the older style - these look like the ones Warmoth is selling. If they are for flat-bottom slots, and not made out of cheap plastic, I'm getting one or three of these soon. They apparently have them coming out in bone, Gibson style headstock versions, and a locking nut version as well.

I tried the earvana two-piece on my first warmoth and loved the in-tuneness but hated the soft crappy material and stupid screws on top. If these new ones really fix the old problems they will be very worthwhile.

 

[kboman]

I noticed that a while ago too, even sent them a mail about which model would work for my Hagström. They even answered within 24 hours! I'm getting one once the paychecks start dropping in.

 

[Alfang]

I have an old style earvana on one guitar, I hate the funky screws, But I love the in-tuneness as well.  Those new nuts look much better

I might need to order about 6 of those

 

[jay4321]

Pretty sweet. I have them on two Fender-type necks with Tonar working on a third and couldn't be happier.

Nice to finally see these released, though would still be nice to have it as a Warmoth option.

 

[Alfang]

Pretty sweet. I have them on two Fender-type necks with Tonar working on a third and couldn't be happier.

Nice to finally see these released, though would still be nice to have it as a Warmoth option.

They do.....  http://www.warmoth.com/Guitar/Necks/StringNut.aspx

 

[Kublai]

W's is straight headstock only. I would like to see them for angled as well.

 

[Schlieren]

I wonder if I find I don't like the LSR nut once my guitar is assembled if an Earvana nut wouldn't get ruined by a tremolo?

 

[jay4321]

Pretty sweet. I have them on two Fender-type necks with Tonar working on a third and couldn't be happier.

Nice to finally see these released, though would still be nice to have it as a Warmoth option.

They do.....  http://www.warmoth.com/Guitar/Necks/StringNut.aspx

Man I was so excited for a second when I read this... until I clicked the link and found the same old thing. To clarify I have 3 Warmoth-Earvana necks, and would like to see Earvanas for the angled headstocks installed here. Sorry for the confusion, my bad

Edit: But this is at least an option

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

I wonder if I find I don't like the LSR nut once my guitar is assembled if an Earvana nut wouldn't get ruined by a tremolo?

It would wear the same depending on what it's made of.  Because it's an Earvana it wouldn't any more or any less suceptible to wear.  My big concern is how much modifying would it take to get an earvana nut to fit where an LSR was.

 

[Schlieren]

They've got a retrofit designed just for it:

http://www.earvana.com/fender_LSR.htm

 

[Cagey]

I'm about to buy another neck that I was going to have them cut for an LSR nut, and saw that Earvana has a drop-in replacement for the LSR shelf you have left if you remove an existing LSR nut. I'm a big fan of the LSR nut and would rather have that cut made at build time when the neck is at Warmoth in a jig where it can be done perfectly. That way, I could try an Earvana, and if I don't hear any difference, I can install an LSR without any trouble.

I don't know if I'm going to do the Earvana thing, though. It's $45 for a 20 cent piece of injection molded plastic, and I'm not sure everybody isn't being scammed on those things, much like audiophiles get scammed on cables, connectors, and whatnot.

If you go to http://www.earvana.com/technology.htm (Earvana's site), they'll show you a graph of what kind of improvement you can expect from your tuning by using their solution.

However, the best improvement in a perfect world using their data is only 4 cents, and that at only 2 spots on the neck. I did a little research, and found out that's the absolute limit of human hearing perception. In other words, less than that is imperceptible even if you've got the auditory perception of a 7 year old child, and even there it's in the lower mids around 2Khz. It deteriorates from there as the frequency goes down (or your age goes up), to where you need as much as a 40 cent change to hear it at the lower limits of perception.

So... what are we buying here? Sounds a little bit like snake oil, although I'm not saying that Earvana is lying, or not presenting actual fact. What I'm saying is we may be paying for something that's more emotionally satisfying than objectively discernible. Just because we can measure something, doesn't mean we can sense it. Our measuring tools are much more sensitive than our senses. I can measure the difference between the amount of force exerted by dropping a 10lb. weight from a height of 1 foot and a 10.1lb. weight dropped the same distance, but if you dropped it on my foot I couldn't tell you the difference between the two <grin>

I think Earvana is telling the truth about what they've learned, the product they provide, and how it performs, but I don't think it's perceptible. I suspect spending $45 has a placebo effect, where expectations provide the differences we think we hear. On the other hand, I know an LSR nut reduces the incidence of string hang ups, which is a very real-world benefit to that product. If Earvana provided a nut built like an LSR with their compensation built into it, then you could install that knowing you were definitely getting something practical for your money. That it corrects for some things you can't even hear would just be icing on the cake.

But, I haven't tried the Earvana nut yet, so I'm sorta speaking out of school here. All I've got are facts, and you all know how malleable those are <grin>

 

[tfarny]

1. The sensitivity of human hearing varies greatly among individuals. 40 cents is a lot, way way off pitch if you are a musician, that's nearly 1/4 step.
2. Forget their data. You must have a good tuner - tune up your guitar perfectly, then play a few cowboy chords, and write down how sharp you are on each string. Listen carefully to the sound. Then re-tune so just that one chord is perfectly in tune whie you are playing it. You might want to record a before and after.
That's what the Earvana does - make the open chords in tune with themselves. You can do your own test and see if you can hear the difference. I definitely, certainly can.

 

[jay4321]

but I don't think it's perceptible. I suspect spending $45 has a placebo effect, where expectations provide the differences we think we hear

Keep in mind that long before Earvana or Buzz Feiten were in business, a lot of players complained of noticeable intonation issues in that particular area where everything's sharp. The imperfection might be small in terms of cents or whatever, but many people are definitely sensitive to it, there are people all over the internet discussing it. That unwound G in particular can be a PITA.

Now, I and others here who have Earvana-equipped guitars could tell you what the intonation difference is like until we're blue in the face (it's certainly been discussed on this board), but it's something you really have to try in order to appreciate. For my part, I notice the G string is especially easier to work with, particularly with in chords where they're fretted vs chords played open, in succession. I'm switching over an LP at the moment, which has a more noticeable problem in this area due to scale.

On the other side of that, I'd agree that Earvana could use better materials (though the Warmoth-installed corian ones aren't bad at all, haven't tried the tusq yet). For sure the black drop-in I just received from Earvana direct is miles ahead of the screw-in two-piece types they had before. More than that, it's not like intonation becomes 100% mathematically flawless, it's just a small adjustment that's mostly evident when you're chording in the area I mentioned - to me, that's a pretty big deal. Of course, a good setup in general and lower action can help.

So I wouldn't rip out a nice standard bone nut for one, but they're standard on my new 25.5" builds and we'll see how it goes with a LPC.  

Having said all that, here's a pre-setup photo of my first Warmoth Earvana close up. You can see there's a significant difference in where the certain strings contact the nut, so even without hearing one yourself maybe you could at least appreciate that there must be an effect on intonation here compared with a standard nut.

 

[Schlieren]

It isn't anything anyone will hear in any realistic recording filled with other instrumentation. . . as for those lucky few who will hear it, more power to them, but frankly, I wouldn't be interested in anyone concerned with such fetishistic concerns, oftentimes so at odds with the soul of generative impulse.

On the other hand, the money required just isn't all that astronomical, and if you really, really had such a beef with them, it'd be easy to hand-make something similar enough with the right 2-part epoxy, a bunch of trial runs, a Dremel, and a buttload of patience.

 

[jay4321]

It isn't anything anyone will hear in any realistic recording filled with other instrumentation. . . as for those lucky few who will hear it, more power to them, but frankly, I wouldn't be interested in anyone concerned with such fetishistic concerns, oftentimes so at odds with the soul of generative impulse

That's getting a bit too Santana for me. I'm only talking about a string nut that improves your intonation a little bit, no more or less. When you say most won't hear it or notice it in a recording, I mostly agree and touched on that a bit in my post. I'd say the same goes for most other minor guitar attributes while we're at it, whether we're talking about bone nuts, or special caps, or how many springs are in the trem cavity.

At the same time, it's typically the player who spends the most time listening to his or her own instrument, so what they hear counts for something.

 

[Cagey]

1. The sensitivity of human hearing varies greatly among individuals. 40 cents is a lot, way way off pitch if you are a musician, that's nearly 1/4 step.

Right. But, best case, they're only correcting for 4 cents. if there were a 40 cent problem they were correcting, I'm quite sure a lot of people could hear it.

2. Forget their data. You must have a good tuner - tune up your guitar perfectly, then play a few cowboy chords, and write down how sharp you are on each string. Listen carefully to the sound. Then re-tune so just that one chord is perfectly in tune whie you are playing it. You might want to record a before and after.

Since they're the ones asking for $45 for a 20 cent piece of plastic, their data is more likely to be skewed in their favor. Yet, it shows the difference to be so slight that it's beyond perception.

That's what the Earvana does - make the open chords in tune with themselves. You can do your own test and see if you can hear the difference. I definitely, certainly can.

I'm sure you can hear it. Humans are spooky in what they can convince themselves of. One only need look to the beliefs involved with politics and religion for myriad examples of that <grin>

 

[Cagey]

Now, I and others here who have Earvana-equipped guitars could tell you what the intonation difference is like until we're blue in the face (it's certainly been discussed on this board), but it's something you really have to try in order to appreciate. For my part, I notice the G string is especially easier to work with, particularly with in chords where they're fretted vs chords played open, in succession. I'm switching over an LP at the moment, which has a more noticeable problem in this area due to scale.

It's interesting that you hear the most improvement on the G string, yet according to your picture that's the only string that doesn't have any compensation. What do you suppose is going on there?

 

[Cagey]

On the other hand, the money required just isn't all that astronomical, and if you really, really had such a beef with them, it'd be easy to hand-make something similar enough with the right 2-part epoxy, a bunch of trial runs, a Dremel, and a buttload of patience.

You're right, it's not a budget-blowing cost. And I don't have a beef with them, nor do I think anyone's nuts for using them. I'm just genuinely curious whether or not it's a worthwhile thing, because everything I'm finding on the subject says the difference it could make would be like a raindrop in the ocean. If that's the case, then for the same money I can put an LSR nut on there that I know brings something practical to the party.

It's also curious that almost nobody installs them but the aftermarket. Why aren't Fender, Gibson, Martin, Taylor, PRS et al using this thing if it's such a fantastic tweak? They're supposed to be the best of the best manufacturers. You'd think they would have jumped on such a thing a dog on a meatwagon so they could brag up their guitars and raise the price another $100 for a 20 cent investment.

 

[tfarny]

The G string is the most compensated, that's why the string is the farthest forward. Look, it's just a nut, lots of us have tried them and like them, and notice a difference. I already told you how you can do your own testing, instead of going on about something you've never heard, get out your guitar and play around with the tuning. If the difference seems like no biggie to you, then fine you can't hear it. The company isn't inventing some mystical bs to sell its product, and no one is saying it transports you to mystical Nirvana. It's a nut, it partially solves a very well-known problem among musicians, use it if you like the sound of chords in tune, don't use it if you don't hear a difference. I don't care which one you choose.

 

[jay4321]

I'm sure you can hear it. Humans are spooky in what they can convince themselves of. One only need look to the beliefs involved with politics and religion for myriad examples of that <grin>

Really trying to answer your questions, but you seem more interested in bashing the product. Now you're going to start insinuating that we’re hearing things? Come on. For a guy claiming to be curious about a product you seem to be taking a lot of not-so-thinly vieled shots at them. If you had a bad experience with them just say so already and go with the LSR.

It's interesting that you hear the most improvement on the G string, yet according to your picture that's the only string that doesn't have any compensation. What do you suppose is going on there?

The Earvana nut channel is cut wider and oriented closer to the first fret, so the G-string sits more forward that it would on a normal nut.