Earvana now offering drop-in nuts for angled & straight pegheads

[Cagey]

The G string is the most compensated, that's why the string is the farthest forward.

I see. That makes more sense, especially considering when you look at Earvana's chart, that string gets the most correction.

Look, it's just a nut, lots of us have tried them and like them, and notice a difference. I already told you how you can do your own testing, instead of going on about something you've never heard, get out your guitar and play around with the tuning. If the difference seems like no biggie to you, then fine you can't hear it. The company isn't inventing some mystical bs to sell its product, and no one is saying it transports you to mystical Nirvana. It's a nut, it partially solves a very well-known problem among musicians, use it if you like the sound of chords in tune, don't use it if you don't hear a difference. I don't care which one you choose.

I know you don't care what I use. Why should you? You're not paying me to play, or condemned to listen to me. I'm just trying to find out what the reality is of these things, because based on scientific facts it doesn't seem as though they should make a perceptible difference. I know they make a measurable difference, but there are a great many things you can measure that human senses can't perceive. My starting point is that I'm as anxious as the next player about getting my instrument in as close to perfect playing condition as I can manage, so when I see something like this nut I want to know what's going on with it. That's all. No malice. I certainly appreciate what Earvana's done, but so far to me it looks like it was an academic exercise they decided to reduce to practice and take to market.

 

[Superlizard]

Drop-in nuts eh?

Congress could use some of those.

HEY-OOO!  :laughing7:

 

[MUYFUE]

Drop-in nuts eh?

Congress could use some of those.

HEY-OOO!   :laughing7:

You de-man.
As per usual, i'm late...yeah it may not make a HUGE difference, but try it to see what you think. As has been said before, Data is not a substitute for experience, give it a shot, then you'll know. At the local guitar shop you can probably find some pre-installed Earvana nuts on guitars from ESP/LTD and Schecter.

Geez, guys it's just a nut.

Not to digress, but if you want to really play IN TUNE. the best solution to me seems to be the Novax Fan Fret...

 

[tfarny]

Tune up your guitar. Play an E chord a few times. Then tune your guitar so each note of the E chord is perfectly in tune. Play again. You hear a difference, that's what the Earvana does. You don't hear a difference, don't buy it.

 

[Cagey]

As has been said before, Data is not a substitute for experience, give it a shot, then you'll know.

Right. Just put a sign on something that says "wet paint" <grin>

 

[Cagey]

Tune up your guitar. Play an E chord a few times. Then tune your guitar so each note of the E chord is perfectly in tune. Play again. You hear a difference, that's what the Earvana does. You don't hear a difference, don't buy it.

That sounds like an interesting exercise. You could also tune the thing open to Eb, then check open E tuning on all six strings at the first fret, effectively turning the first fret into the nut. I wonder what would happen then? <grin>

Somebody else wondered, too, and came up with a neck fretted like this...

It's from a company called "True Temperament" (http://www.truetemperament.com/site/index.php). Kinda bizarre, eh? I can't imagine playing such a thing, but there it is.

 

[Dan025]

Tune up your guitar. Play an E chord a few times. Then tune your guitar so each note of the E chord is perfectly in tune. Play again. You hear a difference, that's what the Earvana does. You don't hear a difference, don't buy it.

That sounds like an interesting exercise. You could also tune the thing open to Eb, then check open E tuning on all six strings at the first fret, effectively turning the first fret into the nut. I wonder what would happen then? <grin>

Somebody else wondered, too, and came up with a neck fretted like this...

It's from a company called "True Temperament" (http://www.truetemperament.com/site/index.php). Kinda bizarre, eh? I can't imagine playing such a thing, but there it is.

humans normally cant hear a couple cent if the notes are back to back i wont argue against that.

now realize that harmony is not quite the same as intuneness. notes played individually may sound in tune but played over top each other they will not. slight variations in pitch cause the overlapping notes and there over tones to fluctuate in and out of phase causing a rythmic "beat" and even if the beat isn't perceived by the listener a change in feel or timbre may be.

now in a perfect world where strings vibrate at one pitch with no overtones or pitch fluctuations music would not sound musical at all. the fact is that no even temperment can produce more than a couple pure harmonies though note systems with more than 12 notes can make beter compromises, problem is that not much material exist for them. now "well tempered" tunings make compromises that sound more in tune do to better harmonies in some keys but the guitar is not suited for easy adaptation to well tempered tunings.

in a non perfect world strings fluctuate in pitch as the sustain decays and carry over tone that are not perfect harmonies. now all our math goes out the window. as we change the pitch of one note the fundamental may go out but the overtones may come back in tune. there may be several barely audible beats overlapping each other and the listener must choose where the least dissonance is most acceptable. i find when tuning by ear that there is a wide range of acceptable out of tuneness where the sound is not dissonant but the the feel and tonal color (for lack of a better description) will change.

what i have said can bring us to two different conclusions;
  A) out of tuneness is a reality of music that cant be solved short of computers and is somewhat of a non issue anyway

  B) instruments must be tuned an intonated by ear and small variations can be the difference between a good guitar and a great guitar, the earvanna may help.

 

[tfarny]

This guy is just trying to score points for cleverness, he's not actually interested in a discussion or the product. This stuff has been well known for a long time, Buzz Feiten is out there and has a lot of endorsers including Erlewine, Earvana is just a drop-in version of that.

 

[MUYFUE]

This guy is just trying to score points for cleverness, he's not actually interested in a discussion or the product.

I agree with you there!

 

[Schlieren]

... and it's made the thread fun to read!  :laughing7:

 

[Dan025]

Somebody else wondered, too, and came up with a neck fretted like this...


It's from a company called "True Temperament" (http://www.truetemperament.com/site/index.php). Kinda bizarre, eh? I can't imagine playing such a thing, but there it is.

i don't remember who but somebody once said that complex solutions are a sign of an inferior designer.

are those frets stainless? i doubt it. what happens when it is time for a refret? with blues players that can be just a couple years. how about even redressing? who wants to do that job? then again blues players will just bend to what ever pitch they want. no need for that guitar in the blues players circle. honestly the best solution is no frets. leave everything up to the musician. they knew this in the early days of strings. cello, violin, upright bass, ect. scaloped necks in the hands of an artist are promising too.

 

[MUYFUE]

i don't remember who but somebody once said that complex solutions are a sign of an inferior designer.

are those frets stainless? i doubt it. what happens when it is time for a refret? with blues players that can be just a couple years. how about even redressing? who wants to do that job? then again blues players will just bend to what ever pitch they want. no need for that guitar in the blues players circle. honestly the best solution is no frets. leave everything up to the musician. they knew this in the early days of strings. cello, violin, upright bass, ect. scaloped necks in the hands of an artist are promising too.

Who told you to put the balm on? I didn't tell you to put the balm on!

:tard: :laughing7: :tard: :laughing7: :tard:
"True Temperment" is a nightmare...Agreed. that's why I always talk about the Fan Fret.
It makes much more sense. No-Vacks, No-Fax, NOVAX! OOH YEAH!

 

[Cagey]

i don't remember who but somebody once said that complex solutions are a sign of an inferior designer.

are those frets stainless? i doubt it. what happens when it is time for a refret? with blues players that can be just a couple years. how about even redressing? who wants to do that job? then again blues players will just bend to what ever pitch they want. no need for that guitar in the blues players circle. honestly the best solution is no frets. leave everything up to the musician. they knew this in the early days of strings. cello, violin, upright bass, ect. scaloped necks in the hands of an artist are promising too.

I don't know either, and a quickie Google search asked if I meant "complex solutions are a sign of an interior designer". Not sure. Sounds like a Freudian slip <grin>

I read the FAQ at the company site (http://www.truetemperament.com/site/index.php?go=4&sgo=0), and they say those frets are actually cast. Some sort of brass that they brag is nickel-free for some reason. I didn't know there was any nickel in brass, but then I'm not a metallurgist. Supposedly, they're harder than nickel-sliver, and hard enough that they don't need dressing very often, more along the lines of stainless frets. They offer special tooling for installing/dressing them if you want to attempt it, but they're not on the site so I'm suspicious. They go to great pains to say you need to either buy the neck from them, or send them a neck that hasn't had its fret slots cut yet. They want about $800 for a neck fretted that way, in the box, out the door. They list rosewood on maple, but you can spec other woods, presumably at a premium.

 

[Dan025]

I don't know either, and a quickie Google search asked if I meant "complex solutions are a sign of an interior designer". Not sure. Sounds like a Freudian slip <grin>

:laughing7:

maybe the wording was wrong, jamie hineman of "mythbusters" said something like that about adam his co-host but i'm sure he got it from somewhere.

it comes back to is the problem a real problem? and is the solution a real solution? i wont tell anyone not to invest in this sort of thing. i wouldn't but won't tell anyone they shouldn't. i have seen music theory and physics and have the personal opinion that it is a waste. but if it makes a person more pleased with the instrument or more confident in it's sound then why not? $800 dolars is a lot of money for a fret job but considering the price of ed roman guitars and prs and even gibson it is not outrageous for some people.

like i said in another post small changes of a couple cent are audible in harmonies so better intonation and altered temperments have some merit but in the end perfect intonation doesn't produce perfect harmonies and shifting one note will only compromise another although the compromise may be less significant if it is all planned out carefully. but even a perfectly intonated and well tempered instrument doesn't take into account harmonic overtones which are just a few cent higher than perfect harmonies, if you tune to overtones instead then every instrument with different string material, thickness strings, brand strings, wood, every other part of the thing, will be tuned just a bit differently. you can chase down every little obstacle for the rest of your life and never find the holy grail of musical tone.

 

[kboman]

I've long been interested in the Earvana and will soon buy one for my Hagström. This is why: while I'm not particulary interested in talk about overtones or temperament, I know guitars generally don't sound in tune to me, period. Some are better, some are worse, but no matter how good the standard intonation is I always cringe when I hear especially E, G and D major open chords. They just sound terrible, to the extent that I actively avoid several keys in my song writing. I always have to detune the G string slightly to make things barely manageable.
This is absurd, but a burden one must bear on any standard guitar with straight frets and nut. With some luck, a compensated system like the Earvana makes life a little easier.

And for the record, I can often hear bad intonation/tuning on records. Maybe I'm just sensitive, but rather that than insensitive.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

Who told you to put the balm on? I didn't tell you to put the balm on!

Balms are unpredictable.  You don't know what they're gonna do!

 

[Soylent]

I've long been interested in the Earvana and will soon buy one for my Hagström. This is why: while I'm not particulary interested in talk about overtones or temperament, I know guitars generally don't sound in tune to me, period. Some are better, some are worse, but no matter how good the standard intonation is I always cringe when I hear especially E, G and D major open chords. They just sound terrible, to the extent that I actively avoid several keys in my song writing. I always have to detune the G string slightly to make things barely manageable.
This is absurd, but a burden one must bear on any standard guitar with straight frets and nut. With some luck, a compensated system like the Earvana makes life a little easier.

And for the record, I can often hear bad intonation/tuning on records. Maybe I'm just sensitive, but rather that than insensitive.

+1 I'm a bit the same.. I always detune my G slightly for my own sanity, and it drives me insane, because I'm a bit OCD.. go figure.  :icon_tongue:

 

[Dan025]

I've long been interested in the Earvana and will soon buy one for my Hagström. This is why: while I'm not particulary interested in talk about overtones or temperament, I know guitars generally don't sound in tune to me, period. Some are better, some are worse, but no matter how good the standard intonation is I always cringe when I hear especially E, G and D major open chords. They just sound terrible, to the extent that I actively avoid several keys in my song writing. I always have to detune the G string slightly to make things barely manageable.
This is absurd, but a burden one must bear on any standard guitar with straight frets and nut. With some luck, a compensated system like the Earvana makes life a little easier.

And for the record, I can often hear bad intonation/tuning on records. Maybe I'm just sensitive, but rather that than insensitive.

fair 'nuff i got so caught up in the details i forgot that the guy posting the true temper thing is the same that doubted 4 cent was audible and questioned if it was snake oil. earvanna is an approximate intonation fix and is about as good as any out there.
i always get caught up in reasons why, but in this case reasons and facts can point a person in different directions. clearly if you detune the g string as a preference putting the nut closer to the first fret on that string will sharp that note back to pitch and leave the fretted notes right where they need to be. so in your case and many others it is worth it and not "snake oil."
if a person needs to ask if it works maybe this is not for them, or maybe they just need to try it.

 

[rockskate4x]

not to interrupt the friendly discussion here or anything, but I thought of a question that would be good to post here. If I were to order an angled strat neck from W with no nut, which earvana nuts should would be compatible?

 

[kboman]

I think the drop-in nut should work, Gibson-ESP or Fender model depending on scale length.