Don't solder to pots - Use solder lugs
- Thread starter Cagey
- Start date
Is it really necessary to use lugs like these or solder to the pots to ground them if the back of the pickguard/control cavity is covered with copper foil for shielding? The pots will be in contact with the shielding foil, so as long as this is in contact with ground (eg through a central grounding point,) then the pots should also be grounded. This should also be true for any guitar that has the pots mounted on a metal control plate, eg a Tele if the control plate is grounded.
Of course this could still cause a problem if the pots come loose and lose contact with the foil, but wouldn't having separate ground leads to the pots as well have the possibility of causing ground loops?
Of course this could still cause a problem if the pots come loose and lose contact with the foil, but wouldn't having separate ground leads to the pots as well have the possibility of causing ground loops?
I always thought that soldering ground wires to the back of a pot was simply a easy place to join all the grounds, and not because the pots need grounding. I don't believe the pots NEED grounding, however I do ground mine
I seem to remember =CB= showed us a nice little lug kit or whatever, that he installs in there to bring the grounds to, I forget, I think he put it in Vics guitar
I seem to remember =CB= showed us a nice little lug kit or whatever, that he installs in there to bring the grounds to, I forget, I think he put it in Vics guitar
Strat Avenger
Hero Member
- Messages
- 2,632
Those ground lugs look like the best way to go. I want to get some.
Using flux is the best way to solder to pots or trem-claws. You're supposed to CLEAN the flux off (after everything cools down) with 90% (or better) alcohol and a cotton swab. This removes any chance of "corrosion" occurring later on.
Using flux is the best way to solder to pots or trem-claws. You're supposed to CLEAN the flux off (after everything cools down) with 90% (or better) alcohol and a cotton swab. This removes any chance of "corrosion" occurring later on.
Super Turbo Deluxe Custom
Epic Member
- Messages
- 8,318
I've used stakons for years with great results. Also, my last few wiring jobs have been J-basses and a Tele with metal control plates, so one catches them all.
SustainerPlayer
Hero Member
- Messages
- 2,702
Marko said:now, if you have any tricks for soldering to trem claws, that would be greatespecially Gotoh WIlkinson trem claws!! no matter how much I clean, sand, scratch, I never get it to stick.. I had to drill a hole in one of them to get it to stick!!!!!
Well - you could put a solder lug on the claw screw.
I really don't think soldering to the back of a pot is poor practice or unprofessional. If you can't do it then I understand your need to criticize and condemn just to validate your easy way out. It's really a matter of personal preferance. I happen to think a good solder joint on the back of a pot is a work of art. There is fine line between innovation and "jerry rigging". The problem with relying on the foil tape to be your ground is that when you mount the pots your washers or tabs tear into the tape and you end up losing contact. it is indeed possible to have a groun loop in a guitar circuit. One common grounding point is ideal but not always doable. All you need is a good iron, some SILVER SOLDER, patience, and some common sense. I have found that most of the problems I've ran into were my own doing in one way or another. I can definately see the ease of use for the tabs I just didn't dig the name calling I guess. Why not go all out and use spade connectors on the tabs of the pots as well?
CrackedPepper
Hero Member
- Messages
- 956
This may be a dumb question but it occurred to me that if the control rout is lined with copper, then why isn't the pot automatically grounded when the nut tightens it to the copper?
Super Turbo Deluxe Custom
Epic Member
- Messages
- 8,318
pabloman said:
I guess I missed the name calling. Soldering to the pot is by far the preferred method by most, and far from a poor practice or unprofessional. A good solder joint on the back of a pot is a work of art, but I'm no artist. I don't consider the solder lug to be jerry rigging, just a different approach. After close to 20 years of tinkering, it's one of several things that still escape me so I found a way around it. I've tried different irons, different guns, different solder, and am very patient. Is it possible this is just something I can't do? In the end, the electrons don't care.
Cagey
Mythical Status
- Messages
- 24,425
That's not a dumb question. In fact, you're right, the pot would be grounded, assuming the pot mounts to a ground plane. But, not all cavities are lined with copper/foil/conductive paint because few people see a need for it. It's a pain in the shorts to do it, it costs time and money, and is largely ineffective anyway. That's why you don't see OEMs doing it. Not that OEMs are the last word in quality construction - they'd sell their mothers to save $.05/unit in manufacturing cost - but they're not blind to competitive advantage, either. If they thought sheilding their pickup and control cavities made any perceptible difference to the end user, you can bet they'd add it and charge an extra $200 for it. Hell, they charge an extra $2,000/unit for an artist's endorsement. Whaddaya suppose something practical would be worth? <grin>CrackedPepper said:
Cagey
Mythical Status
- Messages
- 24,425
pabloman said:
It's poor practice because the pot's body is not meant to be soldered to, and they're not designed to dissipate that kind of heat. The "standard" pot nearly everyone uses in guitars is a 2 watt part. Applying a 25 to 60 watt soldering iron to it is asking it to dissipate not just 100% too much heat, but 12 to 30 times its design limit. It's amazing that they don't all fail immediately. But, the 2 watt disspation rating is largely based on the resistive strip the wiper rides on inside the pot, and there's typically no connection between that and the housing. The housing is there more for mechanical protection than to act as a heat transfer medium. Still, it lets heat in as much as out, so you have to consider what it's letting in to that resistive track. Those tracks are often made of conductive plastic rather than the carbon material they used to use years ago, so it's fragile stuff. You may or may not completely fail that due to overheating at installation, but you certainly affect it. Even a high-quality Clarostat pot has a MTBF rating of only 25,000 turns. CTS, maker of the pots most frequently used in guitars, doesn't even publish a spec on theirs, but in comparing other construction details it's a pretty safe bet that it's dramatically lower than that.
So, do you want to overheat that strip? The pot might work when you get done, but a week/month/year later it's getting noisy, developing dropouts or failing altogether. Changing parts on a guitar usually isn't a great deal of fun to begin with, but you're often improving the thing so there's a reward for your effort. Changing parts because they've failed is enough to piss off a saint, especially when they've failed in such a way as to embarrass you.
As for it being "unprofessional", I don't know what else you'd call engaging in poor practice. But, pros do things wrong for expediency's sake all the time. A doctor will apply pressure to a wound to stop/slow bleeding, but that's not the best way to do it. Does that make him unprofessional? Of course not. Quite the opposite. It's just the fastest, easiest way to control bleeding. It's not meant to be a long term solution. Ideally, he'll repair what damage he can with cauterization, sutures, adhesives, etc. But, if he suggested that you keep pressure on the wound until it heals, then you could start questioning his integrity <grin>
I'm not saying you can't solder wires to pot housings. Lord knows I've done it myself enough times, and I'm a pro. But, the point of this thread was to show a way to apply a long-term, high-integrity solution that's actually easier to do than the standard meatball surgery of OEMs and road techs. If you don't want to do it, that's fine. But, this is primarily a builder's forum rather than tips & tricks for roadies doing triage. When you're building from scratch, there's little excuse for half-measures because expediency isn't an issue.
Being a professional I am sure you see the error in your argument. Wattage is an electrical measurement not a heat measurement. The soldering iron uses wattage as correlation to the heat it generates. So you really aren't applying 65 watts to a pot. If your professional soldering iron at your professional shop puts out any kind of wattage you should get it serviced by a professional. So your statement sounds good if you really don't pay attention to what you are saying. Too bad I did. I am curious as to how many pots fail due to the radiant heat damage you are referring to. Is it enough to justify the lableing that you are doing? I understand that this is your opinion and you are attempting to back it up with some irrelevant facts but that being said I just don't feel that soldering to the back of a pot if done correctly deserves to be labled as a hack job. I have had many instances where if I had a tab laying around I have used it. But it would have been because it's easier. I guess I can't really speak to the longevity issue because most of the stuff I build for myself I end up getting rid of. Any work I've done for other people doesn't come back so I take that for what it's worth. I know of countless instruments and I'm sure we all do that had pot cases that were solder and provided years and years of service. Using your math that is about 1,000% longer than the life expectancy that you have given. But to each his own. What matters most is that you are doing what you feel is the highest integrity repairs and constuction that you can provide. That desrves commadation. There are so many people that are content with "good enough". Do you have a website or anything for your business? I love to check out peoples builds and ideas.
Similar threads
