Does Warmoth Use Airbrush?

[torodurham]

I'm refinishing a FMT Strat from an ugly transparent Teal to a very cool Tobacco/ light bengal burst and and am wondering if I should use an airbrush for the ntop outer edge of the color coats. The amber base doesn't concern me too much..but more interested what Warmoth does and how they are applied on theirs...anyone know?

 

[Tonar8352]

An airbrush would be way to slow. I would assume they use a jamb gun or touch up gun at the least. I use my HVLP and dial the spray pattern down so it is very narrow, cut the fluid way back and turn up the air pressure high so it gets real fine atomization.

Check my threads and you can find some threads on me shooting bursts and how I do it.

 

[torodurham]

I do have a detail gun...but even playing around with it seems like too much volume even turned almost off...heres a pic of what I'm trying to copy. The colors just fade without any definate lines...which I love...the last thing I want in a burst is to go from 1 color to the next with hardly any blend. Love the way Warmoth did this burst.

 

[Tonar8352]

Here is a thread that I did on bursting a guitar with some good progress photos so you can see what happens as the color is applied and then all melts together.  If I was going after the look of the guitar you posted I would not have used black/van dyke brown mixture on the edge and then to the red but I would have used the same brown I used on Black Dogs Spalted Tele Bomb.
http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=4976.135

 

[Tonar8352]

Here is the thread for Tele Bomb. I did use an airbrush to burst the headstock. After looking at the guitar you posted again it looks like they shoot a very thing line of black right along the edge. That is easy to do you; get your pattern very narrow and shoot strait at the edge following the contour of the body to get that little bit of black on it.
http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=15349.120

 

[torodurham]

Checked out the Tele bomb photos of several burst stages...when you spray the burst colors, what angle do you shoot from in relation to the top? What size tip are you using? PSI? You applied the amber with alcohol..denatured and a rag?..do you do this several times sanding in between or once? Is the dark outside color always applied first..then the red? Did you shoot any clear coats before the burst? Ever tried to enhance the flame doing a light brown or black and then sand it back..doing this several times...ala Bengal?  Chris

 

[Tonar8352]

I have no idea of PSI, I just set it until it is atomizing the spray very fine.

On the Flame Tele I used MEK Dye from Luthiers Mercantile mixed in lacquer thinner and some retarder. I only applied it once and I did not sand it back. I shaded it over the entire body with some Color in Oil Hansa Yellow mixed in lacquer. Then I shoot clear to get it level before I shoot the burst. If you look at the Flame thread you will see that I shoot the dark edge first. I always shoot the dark edge first and lay the light color over top of that which is the way Fender did it back in the day.

On Tele bomb once I got it level with clear I sprayed Zinsser Amber Shellac to shade the wood the golden color.

I have not had to enhance any grain on the guitars I have finished.

You should get the Stew Mac Sunburst Finishing CD. It will really help you see all the steps and help you understand how to mix color and how it will look during the different stages of the bursting process.

Once you shoot a burst you will never look at a sunburst guitar the same. They are works of art!!

 

[torodurham]

What is the purpose of the  retarder?
The colors I'm going to use are from Stew Mac...the non water based ones. Got brown, tobacco brown, black, vintage amber, orange, mahogany red, red..should be plenty to get er done and practice with. I'm told to shoot 1:1 lacquer to thinner over the colors as I put each on...well the burst ones on the edges...I'm assuming it's just misted on lightly...not heavy correct? I'm using SW nitro and thinner.

 

[torodurham]

I think I understand the purpose of the retarder...read a post you had up not too long ago that got into it.
One thing I noticed when I did my first build and finish using SW nitro and thinner over Cypress for a Tele (came out great) ...gave it to a coworker as a retirement gift...saw him the other day and it's been about 9 months since I finished it...the finish seems kinda soft...almost like its dry but not really...you can push your nail hard into it and it will leave a mark...is that normal for nitro?

 

[Tonar8352]

I spray my burst colors right on top of each other and then shoot the melt coat.  I do tend to spray the melt coat lighter than a full wet coat but I would not call it a mist coat. I just don't hit it with a normal full wet coat. You will also notice that your color will seem to float up into the clear coats and become more transparent so if you are doing edges on a you really have to make sure the dark color is strong or you will be able to see through it. I did one post on shooting a 3-Tone Strat where I show a picture of me using a flashlight to check edges to make sure I had them buried with color.

Lacquer dings really easy so if someone wants a bulletproof surface they need to go to poly. I could take my fingernail and run it across the face of my 1959 Gibson ES350T and scratch it.

When I think of lacquer being too soft that would imply that you can actually press on it really hard after a few weeks and would be able to leave a fingerprint in it. That would be the result of it having too much retarder added to it, or it is a bad batch of lacquer.

SW makes a good product but did you use furniture grade or did you use production grade?  I use production grade if I want to get a guitar to relic quickly or have the surface yellow strongly like on a 54 Tele.  If I want a harder more durable finish with less yellowing I use McFadden now Seagraves lacquer. Many times I will use the production grade under the Seagraves to get the yellowing effect with the hardness of the good stuff on top.

I want you to know I have had to strip and re-do a few guitars over the years during my learning curve and that is not a bad thing. Believe me you don't make those mistakes again and those lesson are never forgotten.

 

[torodurham]

Sherwin Williams LOVOC Nitrocellulose T70C60  mixed with their K120 thinner
At the time I believe I was mixing it 1:1...since then I've switched to about 2:1.

 

[Tonar8352]

I try to avoid anything below 680 VOC, I can make 550 work but I don't like it and if I have to go to 275 I’ll stop finish guitars. I would recommend the Seagraves.

 

[torodurham]

on a FMT thats kinda redish not the light blond color, how do you get the amber to really pop. When I applied vintage amber it kinda looks dull and brownish...not the glowing goldish amber I see in most sunbursts??

 

[Tonar8352]

Put some lacquer on and it should really pop. You can never really be sure of a color until you get clear on it.  Here is what happened to this one that looked purple before the clear was shot and we got the color we were after.
Here it is before any clear.

Here it is after on a few coats of clear. This is how dramatic the change is when you get clear on them.

 

[torodurham]

when you first put the color on and its wet as well as after it had dried and I wet it with a moist rag...doesn't that give you a pretty close indication of what the color will be?
Do you use vintage amber or yellow to get the ...amber base to a sunburst? (using Stew Mac dyes)

 

[Tonar8352]

Getting the wood wet after you stain it will make it look darker but it is different than shooting lacquer on it.  The color floats up into the clear and it has a different impact on the look.

I use different yellows for different sunbursts.  On the flame maple I have used the
FMDYMEKY MEK-base, dye concentrate, Yellow, 2oz. Bottle from Luthiers Mercantile
.
On vintage style Fender 3-tone sunbursts I make a stain out of Hansa Yellow color in oil mixed with lacquer thinner and retarder and stain the alder. If I want the yellow to be really bright I will bleach the alder first with 2 component wood bleach. On vintage style Fender 2-tone sunbursts I mix Hansa Yellow color in oil into a shading lacquer and shade over the ash that has been filled with oil base paste wood filler.

The only way to really tell what you will get as an end product is to do a test board and even then every piece of wood is different so there is always some slight variation. Remember the impact the finish coats have on the color coat.  Conventional lacquer will continue to darken and change the color over time. Water-white lacquer will be much less yellowing so it will have less impact over the years.

There is one other factor that will change color over time and that is the wood changes color too.