Does the type of wood really matter on a solid body?

[lucky13]

Yep to some degree, if ya want Fender sounds, low output single coils, Maple necks, Alder /Swamp Ash bodies, ....for Gibson sounds medium output Paf pickups, Mahogany neck and Rosewood fingerboards with Mahogany bodies, light or heavy depending on era your trying to recreate.

Ibanez try Bass wood bodies, Walnut/Maple Neck with Ebony fretboard......

For Starters....

 

[bagman67]

Hey, Sully.


You shouldn't construe the discussion above as indicating that body wood has NO effect on tone, but that the effect of wood choice tends to be negligible in solid-body electric guitars compared to the effect of pickups, neck wood, electronics, and amplifcation.  For acoustic guitars, the wood choice makes a HUGE difference in tonal characteristics of the instrument - with electrics, far less so, if at all.


The Tone-o-meter speaks in terms of tendencies or probabilities, and as with any statistical aggregation, should not be used to predict the behavior of any individual specimen.  However, the generalities the Tone-o-meter embodies do hold true across a sufficiently large sample.


As a beginner, consider the guitarists whose tone you like and would like to emulate, and if possible, find out what materials and pickups they use, and use that as a starting point.

 

[Wyliee]

I am bringing a PM from StringTheoryMusic in to this thread as they are all related questions.  NOTE:  As a general policy, PMs belong private and between parties.  I'm only reposting this as, IMO, the questions are consistent with the spirit of the conversation:

Thanks for you comments about the wood selection. I would like to ask a few seemingly arguementative questions. Please read with a respectful grain of salt. 

1 - It seems that if string gauge matters, wood properties and metal properties would matter too. Do u agree?

2 - Why does Warmoth say wood matters so much? (I trust those guys alot)

3 - I just put one coat of tung oil on my new rosewood body and it totally rolled off the highs... am I hearing things?

4 - I changed the 6 screws on my vintage trem to brass and got a cool warm tone differance. (I almost don't believe my ears on this one!)

5 - I have changed necks (my warmoths are "LEGOS" my wife says!) and really think Im hearing a differance.

Im a newb pretty much (10 builds now) and am willing to believe these sounds are partly imagined... please help because Im wanting to build for my friends/students and I want to feel like Im not full of it when Im selecting wood.

The general consensus is just about anything can make a difference in some capacity.  The BIG question, IMO, is how much of a difference and is that difference relevant?  Further, is that difference relevant in a real world environment and does anyone really care?  (ie. at a live gig... if the customers are happy, does it really matter if your bridge saddles aren't titanium?)

We're dealing with something very organic.  There isn't a set list of performance specs with tight tolerances for each species of wood.  It can change from tree to tree and from piece to piece in the same tree.  Still, there are combinations of woods/hardware that will get you in a tonal ballpark.  For a beginner, I would suggest starting with fairly common combinations.  Don't expect to sound like SRV with an all exotic hardwood body/neck and active humbuckers....

I'm not poo-pooing the questions.  My caution here is not to get completely wrapped up in the microscopic details.

 

[DangerousR6]

If there is no definitive answer, then how does one really figure out what they might want to order? I have played a mahogany acoustic which was very muddy and dirty and then bought a spruce top which is very bright comparatively. I played a cedar top Art&Luther that was very much in-between the other two.

If I am looking to choose a body, do I discard the "tone meter" that warmoth displays? How exactly is a beginner, who hasn't played every type of guitar they might want, and cannot play the guitar they want built, know which wood to pick for the low/med/high tones they might imagine they want?

I understand the argument and why it is nigh on impossible to definitively answer, but isn't there some generalities that hold true?

I'd say as a beginer, just order what you like. If you like mahogany with a spruce top, then get that, or if you like exotic woods, then buy something exotic. It's really a matter of what YOU like and what fits your needs. That's the recipe for my own decisions.. :icon_thumright:

 

[sully]

Hmm. Interesting.

So I might surmise then, that if the warmoth tone meter ratings are what most of us would consider "accurate", that I may order an exotic wood that I have never played, and, on average, expect that tonal quality?

This would of course be preceded by the notion that my definition of "low" would be somewhere in the range of what the tone meter is guaged as "low" as well.

Pickups and hardware, even electronics aside, I am trying to get an overall feel for whether the "law of averages" is true here. If most say a certain wood is "low" sounding, then that will usually be the case sort of thing.

lol, my recipe for my own decisions actually calls for a recipe. That means I must know what I am adding to the batter before I bake it, lest I confuse salt with sugar and end up needing beer with my brownies

 

[lucky13]

Did someone say brownies ? :icon_tongue:

 

[DangerousR6]

Did someone say brownies ? :icon_tongue:

Beer and brownies.... :toothy12:

 

[Cagey]

So I might surmise then, that if the warmoth tone meter ratings are what most of us would consider "accurate", that I may order an exotic wood that I have never played, and, on average, expect that tonal quality?

Maybe... if you're building wind chimes... or acoustic guitars. With electrics? All bets are off. It's like predicting the weather 5 days out in one of the northern central states. If you study it for a long time, you may be right often enough to feel like you know something. But, really, there are just too many variables are involved for you to ever have any confidence in it.

The idea that some woods "resonate" when built into electric guitars is an area I think is erroneous. What you're really looking at is what frequencies they absorb or how they change their shape. The effect the wood has on an electric is more easily predicted if you think of it as a big shock absorber.

 

[rapfohl09]

Wish I had this when I first commented  :laughing7:

And I resent that what I said wasn't useful or helpful...you didn't say at all what you knew about the topic.

I suppose I will say that in my experience, the wood makes a difference, but I am still mostly concerned about looks when it comes to wood, and look mostly at pickups for sound differences.

Best sounding guitars are made of mahogany, that is my opinion.

 

[kishibashi]

Sound clips would be really cool on these!

From another thread, involving one of mine and two of marko's.. where the only difference is the woods. Same electronics and hardware.

Amen Brozzer!

and here they are!!

and here is another one, which sounded waaaay different (because of the bloodwood neck... I think)

 

[Cagey]

...you didn't say at all what you knew about the topic.

The more I know, the more I realize I don't know. You pays yer munny and you makes yer choice. Sometimes it works out, other times... not so much.

I've got a guitar here with a Maple body and a short scale Mahogany neck. Deader'n shite. I've another with a hollow Mahogany body and an Afra neck. Bright as the sun. In both cases, it's not a subtle difference.

If it's the wood, somebody's got some 'splainin to do.

 

[Perry Combover]

See my signature.  :icon_biggrin:

 

[sully]

Maybe... if you're building wind chimes... or acoustic guitars. With electrics? All bets are off. It's like predicting the weather 5 days out in one of the northern central states. If you study it for a long time, you may be right often enough to feel like you know something. But, really, there are just too many variables are involved for you to ever have any confidence in it.

The idea that some woods "resonate" when built into electric guitars is an area I think is erroneous. What you're really looking at is what frequencies they absorb or how they change their shape. The effect the wood has on an electric is more easily predicted if you think of it as a big shock absorber.

Well that isn't very nice of the woods to do that lol.

If I catch the vibe resonating here it sounds like some people have found certain woods/guitars to sound at least somewhat similar. Yet at the same time, it is highly possible that a given piece of wood can vary greatly, and even sound like poo poo.

My reading leads me to suggest that pickups/etc can alter this?

So what does one do when they want a custom neck/body from warmoth? Do you just cross your fingers? Pray to the gods? Seems like someone is wasting good money if the odds aren't in your favor.

Does warmoth have ways to pseudo define if a given piece of wood is "dead" or not. I have read tapping is effective, and also read it is FUD.

What a pain, considering that warmoth won't allow the public in. I asked them if I was in the area if I could come by, they said "no way".

 

[Kostas]

...So what does one do when they want a custom neck/body from warmoth? Do you just cross your fingers? Pray to the gods? Seems like someone is wasting good money if the odds aren't in your favor....

Unless you are rich and have money to spend, don't make a custom guitar if you don't know exactly what you want. Play guitars (& amps) in stores, play with other people, go to live concerts and take notes of anyones sound. What he plays, how he plays, combination of pedals & amps, etc.

Why make a guitar if you haven't played with different strats, teles, LP's, semi hollows into classic amps like Fenders, Marshalls, Voxes. Start from the classic sounds, go to the modern sounds, check your favorite bands equipment and see what works best for you. It's not just the woods, a neck has many different options to choose. Unless you have played with different necks you won't know what these numbers mean.

You won't know what you like until you buy a guitar, play it for months/years and then compare it to other peoples.

Anything in the sound chain affects the guitar sound. The main sound starts from your fingers, that's one thing you can't change. I believe that wood affects the guitars sound no matter if it's the body, neck or fingerboard. If you don't have experience the best thing you can do is to take Warmoths descriptions seriously.

 

[swarfrat]

While its certainly not a formula, i dont think a blanket doesnt matter doesnt resonate is accurate either. Neither warm or bright is the opposite of dead. Theyre just different characters of resonance. Ive played guitars that your left hand may as well have been pressing on a picnic table , and Ive played guitars with various degrees of thunk/knock (some almost ringing when struck) , and it certainly interacts with the whole entire resonant system at volume. When you pick up a live instrument your can certainly feel more vibration in your left hand.

 

 

[lucky13]

To the Naysayers:

No offense but you seem more bent on finding fault than really finding out about wood selections...considering several people have given you plenty of subjective info and alternate sights and sources of knowledge for you to go to so you could consult others for further knowlege on the subject, yet you continue on the same tedious humdrum, about..Why you cant figure it out....

heres some food for thought...maybe wood selection isnt what your seeking, but validation that a Custom instrument isnt for you...well then here ya go, yes there are many variable,yes there are many opinions, yes AC/DC sounds different than Ted Nugent and yes each is a great band but with different fans and different opinions as to what they think sounds good in music.......

If you havnt taken the advice to check out the wood selection in the guitars of your favorite players and buy those if your in doubt about other species then your not really interested in building a guitar are ya ? so quit your Beechin! :doh:

 

[sully]

If you havnt taken the advice to check out the wood selection in the guitars of your favorite players and buy those if your in doubt about other species then your not really interested in building a guitar are ya ? so quit your Beechin! :doh:

Umm, if this is a secretly coded message that pertains to me, not sure why naysayer is used.

Teachers must have patience. If a student asks questions, it is because they don't understand yet. If they ask questions about the topic they have been learning, it is because they are listening, but want or need more comprehension.

Don't confuse the student who still seeks information with the student who thinks they know better. The student still seeking information often challenges the teacher, because they are trying to understand. Such students often cause the teacher to more fully develop thier own thoughts/viewpoints/knowledge on the topic. At least that has been my experience.

 

[sully]

You won't know what you like until you buy a guitar, play it for months/years and then compare it to other peoples.

Anything in the sound chain affects the guitar sound. The main sound starts from your fingers, that's one thing you can't change. I believe that wood affects the guitars sound no matter if it's the body, neck or fingerboard. If you don't have experience the best thing you can do is to take Warmoths descriptions seriously.

Good points.

I know the sound that I want. I have played a number of guitars which have it, although as you note, there is much variance. But still, a mahogony body with maple/rosewood, in the sort of muddy mid to mid-low range is not hard to find. Some other woods can be much the same, and some are just too bright for my tastes.

Because I want a wide neck, that pretty much means custom. I just want a really nice guitar, one that I can rely on for years and that is well made, in all aspects. I don't need a $3000+ studio guitar, but neither do I see the point of playing for a few years on a budget model, when I could have been using a nice one the whole time. There is a difference you can feel.

Whether the wood makes any difference is really a mute point isn't it? What would be more useful is whether placing woods in "tone classes" is accurate or not.

 

[Cagey]

Whether the wood makes any difference is really a mute point isn't it? What would be more useful is whether placing woods in "tone classes" is accurate or not.

You can definitely place different woods into different classes. It may not be a 100% accurate categorization 100% of the time, but it's the way to bet. Also, be aware that we're talking about degrees here. There's little question that wood selection makes a difference. The argument is really "how much?" If it's 5% wood species, 7% neck attachment type, 8% neck design, 10% bridge design and 68% pickup design with the balance going to the tone worms, then it's clear where your concerns need to be focused. I'm not saying those are the numbers - I'm just trying to illustrate how it would be possible for everybody to be right.

 

[swarfrat]

I'll disagree about not being able to change the sound of your fingers. There's actually a lot of color to be had from fingers, and it not only can be learned, it must be learned. Think how bad you sounded the first time you ever picked up a guitar. Very few people are born knowing this stuff. I can get some 'almost wah' from the way I hold my pick and thumb, or something that sounds almost like a harmonizer with the right amp settings (I had that one working pretty well a few weeks ago but it's evading me again) Of course, it goes the other way too - I played with this one guitar player who had a lovely Guild acoustic, but it had this horrible nasal midrange spike that I never understood until I played it and heard a very normal sounding flat top dreadnaught.

Most of what people say about 'sound' being in your fingers is really about phrasing, but there is actually quite a bit of tonal coloration for the exploration too.