Classical FLAT fingerboard.

[canissalsus]

A very simple suggestion that they could do that I didn't see at all is to make an option for a 100% flat fingerboard.

I only practice classical on my solid bodies. I think it would be great to have the option buy a neck that is 100% classical guitar FLAT. Zero Radius.

(Naturally that implies the frets and nut also.)

 

[Cagey]

In 10+ years, I think you might be the first I've seen ask for such a thing. But, it might be worth a call to them. Sometimes, options are so rarely called for that they're not programmed into the "builder" page, but they'll do them for some additional charge.

Note they do offer a "Superwide" neck with a straight 16" radius. Not what you're asking for, but closer.

 

[AirCap]

I did one for one client....

 

[canissalsus]

I saw that, I even looked at it to see what it would cost. But Close isn't necessarily Right in the way I am hoping for. I would like to have something that is a more or less equivalent for more authentic form.

I suppose I could always contact them, and probably will.

But that wouldn't help that there could be other people who never thought about a Classical Flat Fingerboard because they never they saw it before. Seeing it could attract that extra margin of people who are on the fence who wouldn't see any incentive in trying anything new otherwise.

It's like this. Suppose you are a Metal guy. But you see a Classical Flat Fingerboard option, and you think maybe I SHOULD practice some classical guitar skills. So as to round out your playing abilities and experience to a higher professional level of guitar playing. So you Buy, and bolt on Classical Flat Fingerboard neck on your guitar. You don't have to buy another guitar but just a neck. No expensive Classical guitar to worry about. No in depth research. Just bolt and go. It's would much cheaper, easy, and readily available. Simple.

I HAVE SEEN METAL GUYS PRACTICING CLASSICAL GUITAR MUSIC ON their Stratocaster on YouTube. These MAY be the same sorts who "WANT IT ALL" when it comes to guitar playing who may enjoy additional skill building which they could just walk up to. I also reason it could be helpful to get a foot in the door if they ever needed to transition back and forth with a real one. "Branching out" so to speak. Though the use of a classical guitar is NOT common in the metal scene. I THINK IT SHOULD BE. Maybe I'm over thinking it.

Additionally I think the difference has to offer SOMETHING. The Classical Tradition of the flat fingerboard has to exist for a reason.

To me this seems like a capital idea, and very much worth adding. It won't take up much server space or be laborious.

I think it has potential to be a BOON SLEEPER for technical guys who want no stone left unturned. I understand that others may not see it that way.

Though In reality ALL THE FRIENDS in my life have always been metal guys. I was making my own Classical guitars and violins until I became too sick to do so. So now I am only left with solid bodies. Maybe thats food for thought.

I will surely be wanting one no matter what they decide.

Thanks for your input on the matter.

 

[Cagey]

Swapping necks around sounds interesting, in that like you say, you could try something new or different that you might not try otherwise without having to buy a whole new guitar. But, then you may get into some situations with the bridge, depending on its design/style. Some are easier to reconfigure than others. And if you do the threaded insert thing at the neck heel, that's one thing, but in keeping with the traditional wood screws it wouldn't take long to wreck the thing's mount. Not that you'd be swapping things around constantly...

I don't know. Call 'em. The sales guys aren't just order-takers, per se. They know their business, so you'll get an answer pretty quick, if not immediately.

 

[Logrinn]

...Additionally I think the difference has to offer SOMETHING. The Classical Tradition of the flat fingerboard has to exist for a reason...

I’ve once built an electric guitar with a flat fingerboard and my experiencing of it was ... meh. It’s definitely not a common thing for a reason as I’m sure very few that are used to a fingerboard with a radius would like it. I’m guessing the reason for a flat fingerboard has to do with the right hand, not the left hand.
Like Andrew here also mentions:

[youtube] https://youtu.be/6phVl9PTMMc[/youtube]

 

[DaveT]

The Superwide with the 16" radius is not bad at all.

For the full Classical width have a look at the Halo Guitars 'Octavia Wide Neck' guitar.
It doesn't say what radius the fretboard is but they are good at answering emails.
It is a bolt on neck so Mr Bodgy can probably persuade it to bolt to something else.

And they do custom work so they will be able to do a dead flat fretboard.
I was tempted by the Octavia but opted for the Thinline Tele with Superwide neck from Warmoth instead.

And, if there are lots of 'secret' options at Warmoth I wish they would tell us what they are!
As long as it is already setup for the CNC or whatever machines the hard work is done.

 

[mayfly]

here's a thought: 

1 - Order a superwide 16" radius neck, but without the frets installed.
2 - level that fretboard flat flat flat!
3 - send it to Cagey for fretting. 

Done!

 

[AirCap]

1 - Order a superwide 16" radius neck, but without the frets installed.
2 - level that fretboard flat flat flat!
3 - send it to Cagey for fretting.

Fixing it for you..
1 - Buy the superwide.
2 - Send it to Cagey (or someone competent and experienced), and let THEM level the fingerboard and fret it.

 

[AirCap]

The Classical Tradition of the flat fingerboard has to exist for a reason.

Of course. The early builders before the late 1800's used flat fingerboards because of traditional woodworking methods where everything was made with a flat board. Techniques and tools developed from there. Radiused fingerboards first appeared on violin family instruments before gaining acceptance across the rest of fretted string instruments. The curved backs of mandolins were made with flat strips of veneer alternating with wedged shaped slices to form a curve. It just takes time for stuff like this to evolve. So your answer is simple: tradition is why classical fingerboard remain flat today.

 

[mayfly]

ok - now I want a classical guitar with a compound radius neck...

 

[stratamania]

History alert.

The statement that everything was flat earlier in the thread that prior to the late 1800s is not accurate. Antonio Stradivari who lived between 1644 - 1737 so if violins were among the first to have radiused boards from around the late 1800s that can not be correct as the aforementioned gentleman was no longer around but his violins most certainly do have radiused fingerboards.

Also traditional woodworking methods prior to the late 1800s produced some of the finest and intricate craftsmanship that has been seen. For example cabinet making versus today's flat pack furniture...

 

[AirCap]

The statement that everything was flat earlier in the thread that prior to the late 1800s is not accurate. Antonio Stradivari who lived between 1644 - 1737 so if violins were among the first to have radiused boards from around the late 1800s that can not be correct as the aforementioned gentleman was no longer around but his violins most certainly do have radiused fingerboards.

You better provide some proof. Just because he made violins doesn't mean the fingerboards of his guitars were radiused. With only 5 instruments left, and only one playable, details should be available. Provide them, or I call bullshit.

For example, the only playing Stradivari guitar is The Sabionari made in 1679. Here's a webpage with detailed photos. Note the FLAT fingerboard......
http://www.sinier-de-ridder.com/restaurations/stradivari_eng.html

For your listening pleasure, from YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVXD85Lcj1o

Also, Torres is the generally considered the first true modern classical guitar maker, and his most important works date from the 1850's to his death. His guitars had flat fingerboards. Any guitars made before Torres are considered to be baroque instruments, and not true guitars.

Finally - my statement that flat fingerboards is traditional is absolutely accurate.

 

[stratamania]

The statement that everything was flat earlier in the thread that prior to the late 1800s is not accurate. Antonio Stradivari who lived between 1644 - 1737 so if violins were among the first to have radiused boards from around the late 1800s that can not be correct as the aforementioned gentleman was no longer around but his violins most certainly do have radiused fingerboards.

You better provide some proof. Just because he made violins doesn't mean the fingerboards of his guitars were radiused. With only 5 instruments left, and only one playable, details should be available. Provide them, or I call bullshit.

For example, the only playing Stradivari guitar is The Sabionari made in 1679. Here's a webpage with detailed photos. Note the FLAT fingerboard......
http://www.sinier-de-ridder.com/restaurations/stradivari_eng.html

For your listening pleasure, from YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVXD85Lcj1o

Also, Torres is the generally considered the first true modern classical guitar maker, and his most important works date from the 1850's to his death. His guitars had flat fingerboards. Any guitars made before Torres are considered to be baroque instruments, and not true guitars.

Finally - my statement that flat fingerboards is traditional is absolutely accurate.

The onus is not on me to provide proof. Your own statement key points highlighted.

The Classical Tradition of the flat fingerboard has to exist for a reason.

Of course. The early builders before the late 1800's used flat fingerboards because of traditional woodworking methods where everything was made with a flat board. Techniques and tools developed from there. Radiused fingerboards first appeared on violin family instruments before gaining acceptance across the rest of fretted string instruments. The curved backs of mandolins were made with flat strips of veneer alternating with wedged shaped slices to form a curve. It just takes time for stuff like this to evolve. So your answer is simple: tradition is why classical fingerboard remain flat today.

Quite clearly violins with curved fingerboards appeared prior to the late 1800s contrary to your statement. Stradivari lived well prior to that. Bowing a violin is far more workable with a curved board.

I am not disputing your statement that classical boards traditionally are flat or that makers who made violins with curved boards also made guitars made them with flat boards. But everything prior to the late 1800s including violins was not made with flat boards.

 

[Cagey]

Thread edited for civility.

Please be aware that we're to learn/grow/relate/teach and so should treat each other with tolerance and respect, and failure to do so may result in a suspension of posting privileges.

 

[Rick]

I love classical necks, but on the electric, I've found warmoth's superwide compound neck to the best.  I like having the curve up around the top five frets.

 

[PhilHill]

Wood planes have been around since the Romans in 79AD. So the ability to radius a fret board has always been there. I'd say that classical boards have been flat because that's the way they wanted them, in other words, a combination of tradition and public expectation.

 

[Cagey]

I think you're right. Many improvements are just that - improvements that experience says are a Good Thing and so get adopted. It wasn't that it wasn't possible, just that nobody knew radiusing a fretboard made it easier for some to form chords or whatever. Of course, there weren't a helluva lotta guitars around, so how could they know? Gotta find the bugs before you can clear them.

 

[PhilHill]

I think you're right. Many improvements are just that - improvements that experience says are a Good Thing and so get adopted. It wasn't that it wasn't possible, just that nobody knew radiusing a fretboard made it easier for some to form chords or whatever. Of course, there weren't a helluva lotta guitars around, so how could they know? Gotta find the bugs before you can clear them.

Exactly.  Trouble is that trying to trace back the history is daunting at best. First, you have to find when they stopped being lutes, chittarons, etc. and started to resemble a modern guitar, then get into the argument about who started first the flamenco or the classical, and which one developed into the stuff that Johann Stauffer and his apprentice,(some guy named Martin or something) started calling parlor guitars. Heck, the Hawaiians even got involved in the whole thing with them ukulele things.

 

[Cagey]

It occurs to me that more widespread literacy and a ubiquitous global communications network would have come in real handy back then...