Chambered Strat Baritone

[TonyW]

What was originally going to be a Jazzmasrer baritone i decded to do a strat instead after finding a swamp ash body on the showcase
So far i have
1: a chambered swamp ash strat body routed H H
2. a 24 fret Baritone neck 28 5/8" Scale  
3: Hardware Sperzel locking tuners Vintage Hardtail bridge
4: Pickups on order are Harmonic Design Z90
5: Have all my tru oil, my filler my sealer sandpapers ready waiting on better weather
6: Tele 4 position Oak and Grigsby switch

 

[Mor Paul]

Will there be a pickguard? You could ask them to route for both a p90 and a humbucker, and the pickguard would cover up the extra routing, and give you the option of a true p90 later.

 

[TonyW]

Hey Max

yeah the pickguard is going to be routed Strat HB.

I dont want to be confined to just the P90 but i do want the tone, well i think i do  :icon_scratch:
hence the HB route. The strat route comes about because i have a Strat Lipstick in my bin and the need to experiment.

 

[Mor Paul]

Hey Max

yeah the pickguard is going to be routed Strat HB.

I dont want to be confined to just the P90 but i do want the tone, well i think i do  :icon_scratch:
hence the HB route. The strat route comes about because i have a Strat Lipstick in my bin and the need to experiment.

You want that p90 tone, trust me  :icon_thumright:
If you have both routes in the same position, you can switch with just a pickguard swap.

 

[tfarny]

You need a universal rout - a normal p90 will not fit in a hb rout. A strat will not fit in a hb rout, because they location is just a bit different. Some courage and a dremel will fix it though. 
Go with the widest string spacing you can get - a callaham strat hardtail bridge would be perfect. I would also recommend getting the nut cut specially for the baritone by a good tech - I cut my own using the spacing from a standard nut and, had I spaced them out a bit closer to the edges, I would have been happier. You're not bending much with a baritone anyhow.
As for pickups, your big concern is going to be floppy bass response, at least in my experience. A good alnico 5 strat pickup might be just the ticket for cleans, but I can also see going with ceramic magnets, again based on my experience.

 

[TonyW]

You need a universal rout - a normal p90 will not fit in a hb rout. A strat will not fit in a hb rout, because they location is just a bit different. Some courage and a dremel will fix it though. 
Go with the widest string spacing you can get - a callaham strat hardtail bridge would be perfect. I would also recommend getting the nut cut specially for the baritone by a good tech - I cut my own using the spacing from a standard nut and, had I spaced them out a bit closer to the edges, I would have been happier. You're not bending much with a baritone anyhow.
As for pickups, your big concern is going to be floppy bass response, at least in my experience. A good alnico 5 strat pickup might be just the ticket for cleans, but I can also see going with ceramic magnets, again based on my experience.

Nah mate I aint putting P90's in i am putting P90 construction types that go in humbucker routes also strat routes if you want and hence you dont have to mess around with dremels. If i dont want the P90 sound i can throw a HB in the bridge and take the lipstick out if i want and put in a P90 in a strat construction. Its going to be hit and miss with the pickups until i am strung up and ready to go.

HD Z90

So the Callahan would be wide like the vintage one i was already thinking of installing, off for a look, thanks for the tip.

I have a great tech who always does my final setup and does the nut (nearly said does my nuts for me but we aint that close)for me so alls good
I play alot of botton end overtones when i play, i also play lots of rythms so aint much bending going on here haha.

:icon_thumright:

 

[TonyW]

Hey Max

yeah the pickguard is going to be routed Strat HB.

I dont want to be confined to just the P90 but i do want the tone, well i think i do  :icon_scratch:
hence the HB route. The strat route comes about because i have a Strat Lipstick in my bin and the need to experiment.

You want that p90 tone, trust me  :icon_thumright:
If you have both routes in the same position, you can switch with just a pickguard swap.

Yep yer right but i can also swap in or out of P90 tone without changing the pickguard just the pups.

Anyone know if i get WM to route for Strat Flat Mount Bridge, Vintage Spacing do they do the string through the body
holes as well ? or is that an add on or aftermarket?

Was just configuring the guitar body and ran into that little hiccup

 

[TonyW]

Now i am in total shock  :icon_scratch:  just started to get a pickguard together and was about to order it until i saw the shipping to Australia

$44 US for a $30 pickguard thanks but no thanks thats rippin me a new one considereing i get parts from the US all the time.

Another parts supplier is only $20 for a fully loaded pickguard for a strat.

Think i will reconsider this build, shipping is going to kill me.

:dontknow:

 

[tfarny]

Well I think you should combine the shipping on all the parts, right? I don't know anything about Warmoth's intl. shipping but I imagine that's the way.
As for your tones and pups: some really knowledgeable people, like Jason Lollar, make the case that the shape of the bobbin itself if a big part of frequency response. In other words, you can't get a pup to actually sound like a p90 unless it's shaped like a p90. Maybe you can get close, but...

The other thing is, I wonder if a P90 is really the best pup type for a baritone - you've got a huge amount of bass and mids coming off the strings, I wonder if a midrangey p90 is the best way to get nice sounds. If you're still considering doing this guitar, what kinds of sounds are you after? When I was planning mine, somebody suggested ceramic magnet pups so that the bass would hold together - which actually makes a lot of sense now that I have heard my baritone.

 

[TonyW]

Yeah combined shipping is the intention but at $44 for a single very light item, whats its going to jump to when we get some weight on board.
Wether you are buying/combining one part or 10 the shipping should still be reasonable. I am intending emailing Warmoth start of busines Monday and see what they got. MY part time job (or is music my art time job  :icon_scratch is to send cars national and international, quote the prices, ship the cars, so i have a little idea of what reasonable shipping charges might be. It aint rocket science.

If i wanted a straight up and down P90 under whatever brands tone appealed to me, none of which are original P90 all are clones with a multitude of variances, i would get one, but this would leave me with 2 P90 routes and no options if i want to kick them out. I want something a little more universal. If i have to swap the clone P90's out, i can put in a large variety of other pickups say HB's or the like without rerouting anything.

If you jump onto my Myspace page and scroll to a sample mixed tune "Madeline" the electric guitar on that my Dano U2 (theres no bass guitar on it either)  is just one take live with my drummer, the only overdub is a bit of acoustic and vocals, this will give you and idea of how i naturally play with overtones and droning strings (not trying to plug my music just saying thats the sort of thing)

The sound that i am after is the one in my head lol and the sound i hear from the Harmonic design Z90 is bang on it and is going in the bridge. The neck is a lipstick 6.5k on my meter, its going in because its here already, i haven heard it and if its crud i will try one of the Strat P90 clones and see if thats what i want. Having pickups laying around if i swap them out is a good thing.

I am not one for the voodoo associated with pickups, you can brand them whatever you like but craps crap and good sound is just that.

The Z90 has a fatter hotter sound than an original P90. Have a listen to some of Bill Frisells tone on his album 'Good Dog, Happy Man' there another guy with a warmoth on youtube with them in and they sound spankin.

I have probably have had or used 1000's of pickups in my time, even used to wind my own, and so so many configurations, even 2 pickups wound the same day the same way the same conditions have 2 different characteristics. There's alot of voodoo in the pickup making industry and alot of that voodoo is crap. I just go with my ears. Most pickups that are clones only capture the vibe and some are better than original P90.

What they are doing pretty much these guys wuth the humbucker fit is winding a P90 to spec then trimming the bobbins and base plates so they fit.

I have no beef with Jason Lollar his pups have some sweet tones and i am sure his pups are very very good and should be for the money he charges. My tech (been building guitars for 50yrs) who used his pups for many yrs has now swapping to the Aussie made Sliders Vintage Classics i put in my strat build. After hearing them he was floored. It wasnt about reputation or price (sliders aint cheap either) it was about sound. The BG pups i came across knocked me out when i heard his strat type with P90 clone in my mates lap steel, awesome tone. Wether this works in a Baritone who knowes until we try it.

Now back to the subject on hand lol
I am continuing with the build  :hello2:

 

[TonyW]

Just about to pull the trigger on a bucket load of parts and a Jazzmaster body and maybe a baritone neck if finances can hold me.  :doh:

I have a question. i generally use Sperzal lockers i find these great and the guitar stays in tune, so for any of you guys who have built a baritone
is there any preference for the tuners. I like the Lockers because they are staggered and dont require string T's but am open to suggestions if you consider something better.

For any international buyers put off by the price of freight just contact Warmoth and they will give you a fair and reasonable quote. It aint going to be cheap, never is, but its fair.

:icon_thumright:

 

[tfarny]

How thick of a low string do you want to go? I don't think Sperzels can hold much more than maybe .055. Oh hold on, I can check for you - no, they look like they could barely fit a .055 or so at the very most. I know that's about the max for schaller too. My baritone has the gotoh sg38 which are very nice, cheap, but non locking. They do a great job though.

 

[TonyW]

Ahh i string stock with 10-52's D Addarios light top heavy bottom and just checking the sperzels i am now wondering if i made a baaad decision
because i just pulled the trigger on this.

Quartersawn Maple and Shimmering Mother of Pearl Inlay!
Specs: Maple/Indian Rosewood, 1 11/16" Nut Width, Standard thin Contour, 10-16" Compound Radius, Mother Of Pearl Inlays, Vintage Style (11/32") Tuner Ream

Maybe i need to fire off an email and change the reem for the tuners i just went Sperzel then i read your post  :-\

 

[TonyW]

I am reading of quite a few baritones with Sperzel lockers, one of them using 68 bottom on an 8 string.
I was thinking of going 63.  I still have to do some more research on what the Sperzels can handle..

 

[stubhead]

There may be different Sperzels. I'm not saying there are for sure, I haven't researched it, but my Carter pedal steel guitar has Sperzels and they'll handle a .070" low C no problem. A number of steel guitar builders use them, probably for that reason, but it may be a special run that Sperzel does.

If you want to get deep into this, head over to the seven-string forum, because they know all about big strings and little tuners.

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/ Heavy Metal Heaven! arty07:

 

[TonyW]

Thanks for the info SH

:glasses10:

 

[TonyW]

My Baritone Neck is in Ontario Canada, on its way to Aussie

Go You Good Thing!!!!

Have bought a universal bass case off ebay for it, the case was $100au brand new arrived today and its excellent for the bucks paid.

Time to order some tru oil, anyone have any idea how much approx i am going to need for the Neck
and body?

 

[TonyW]

Neck arrived  :cool01:

Have put in an order for Tru Oil 3X3oz (90ml) 1x 8oz (240ml) and walnut water based stain that i will try out on some tassie oak i am building
a stomp box out of.

 

[TonyW]

Parts i now have in stock

Vintage wire, shielded Gibbo type and Vintage fender style pushback
250k CTS tone and Volume
NOS mil spec K42Y-2 Russian Paper in Oil Capacitor 0.047uF,160v,+/- 10% Tolerance
GFS Strat Lipstick RWRP for the neck

And my Tru Oil arrived

Its too cold here right now to be messin with the finish so i will experiment with some stains
on scrap until i get the desired colour, not too dark not too light

 

[PitchShifter]

Putting together a Jazz Baritone project myself,  so I'm really looking forward to seeing how your project comes together  :icon_thumright: