Building a Klein--first time builder, need some direction

[AlexSmith]

Hey guys, I've lurked here for a little bit and have wanted to build a Warmoth guitar. Fate, it seems, has let me know that now is the time.

I'm a student at Berklee in Boston; therefore, I practice a lot, and have developed some nerve and tendonitis issues. A teacher of mine, Tim Miller, plays a Klein and a Klein-inspired guitar built by Rick Canton, and his guitars feel very, very good on my wrists. Kleins are discontinued and, used, reach prices of about $6000 or so...and a custom build costs at least $2000, probably more. So I've an excuse to build a guitar and I'm taking it.

Here's what I'm thinking:
1) First, it has to be headless. I'm thinking of using Ola Strandberg's hardware, seen here: http://guitarworks.thestrandbergs.com/gallery/?album=16
It appears to be the best mix of price (about $360 for the bridge and string clamps together), simplicity, and quality that I can find.

2) Use Warmoth parts, or similar. I'm at least going the bolt-on route, that's for sure. Since it's my first build, I don't want to spend a ton (also, I'm in college, so I have little to no disposable income) so it'll be built out of Alder or Swamp Ash, and probably a Maple neck/Rosewood fretboard. I love the Warmoth Wolfgang neck profile and compound radius fretboard, so that's why I'm thinking about using their stuff. For ease of playing purposes, I'm going with a 24.75" scale. So I'm thinking I'll buy a plank headstock, chop off most of it, and screw down the string clamps.
Though, I think I might have a better idea: Since the 1st fret of a 25.5" scale neck is 1.75," I'll just place the string clamps in the first "fret" and re-position the nut. That way, I would have a zero fret, and the strings won't have to be pulled down like they would in the former option.
The end result would look like this: http://guitarworks.thestrandbergs.com/gallery/?album=16&photo=196

3) The body. There are plans for a Klein guitar/harp, like the one Michael Hedges played, available through some luthier association, seen here: http://www.luth.org/plans/pl34.jpg
The body is a little bit different from the standard guitar, but I can't find a template for that. So I'll just compensate while sanding the body. The reason I'm thinking of going with Warmoth, again, is because I can have them route out for the bridge and pickups. I'm not sure how big the template will have to be blown up to get to the right proportions; I also don't know if a Warmoth body blank will be big enough to fit it. I'd rather avoid having to glue together pieces of wood for the body and just use a single piece, for purposes of both tone and simplicity.

That's all that I can think of right now. I'm making this post because I've never even soldered a pickup before, and this project is going to be very important--I've always wanted to get in to luthiery, and I need a guitar like this to practice on (and sometimes perform on, depending on the genre of music) from now on, due to my injuries. So if you guys could point out any flaws in my logic, or useful tips that I should know, or any other form of information, I'll really appreciate it.

Thanks a lot!
Alex

 

[jackthehack]

From that link to the template/plan in your post, it would appear to my semi-calibrated eyeball that a standard Warmoth body blank may not be wide enough to do that exact shape, although you COULD mod the width to fit the blank and keep that same rough shape; looks vaguely like an old Ovation Deacon...

 

[Wyliee]

First things that come to mind:

- It is highly unlikely a standard body blank would accomodate the extra wide body.
- It looks like the neck joins the body at the 19th fret and is 24 frets.  The heel on a 25.5" scale Warmoth neck starts @ the 16th fret and you would only be able to get 24 frets with an overhang.  You could look at the 24 fret x 24.75" neck, but the heel still starts @ 16th fret.  In short, you'll have neck pocket issues without changing the body style.

Pretty ambitious first project.  Good luck!

 

[AlexSmith]

Aha, that's exactly the stuff I was hoping you guys would point out! In fact, I emailed a Warmoth custom support type guy with these same problems, and his reply was basically "...Uh, try asking the guys on Unofficial Warmoth."
Here's the thing about the 24th frets: Since I'm thinking about putting the string clamp on the 1st fret of the 25.5" scale neck, effectively making it 24.75," I will now have 23 frets. So either I'll have to chop off one (to make it 22) or somehow add one (to make it 24 again). Or just have 23 frets...which would be weird.
As far as the neck joint goes, this guitar isn't going to be an exact copy. For example, that Rick Canton guitar that I mentioned looks like this:
http://a1.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/83/7011831eecc2419d99e84652b714af56/l.jpg
It's got 24 frets, so it looks like it joins at around the 18th fret or so, and the bodies quite a bit different, even though it follows the general Klein ideal.
So, Wyliee, if you could enlighten me...except for issues regarding carving out the body around the neck pocket, what other issues would the body connecting at the 16th fret bring about?
Also, do you know of any good places to get a *routed* body blank big enough to accomodate this body, or will I just have to suck it up and glue it?
Thanks,
Alex

 

[Wyliee]

Without knowing the actual dimensions of the body, I really could not say for sure on the body blank.  I don't know of anyone offering exceptionally wide body blanks.  It might be possible to use a double neck blank.  That would certainly be more than wide enough, but may also be overkill.

I've taken a closer look at some of the images and noticed something else.  Look at the string clamp behind the first fret and then look at the neck back.  Notice that even though it is headless, the neck back has been shaped like a headstock transition.  You won't have that headstock transition if you turn the first fret in to a zero fret.

To get back to the neck pocket, you need to have sufficient surface area to mount the neck.  A general rule of thumb is to make sure the heel is as long as or wider than the width of the neck.  If you stick with a Fender style neck and neck pocket, you are probably OK.  (No absolute guarantees though!)

 

[ivar]

Hello!
Looks as an interresting project.
If you don`t alredy know, you can find some info here:
http://buildingtheergonomicguitar.com/2008/04/klein-electric-guitar-project.html

Body with here is 15,38 inches, a Warmoth bass-body blanc is 15 inches, close to wide enaugh!.

Good luck with your project!

Ivar

 

[ivar]

If I had Adrian Legg`s playingskills, I would used peghead with banjotuners.
(The video is a little too dark)

http://youtu.be/xsv44uiRzOY

Ivar

 

[Wyliee]

More stream of consciousness thoughts:

- Watch out for the truss rod.  If you clamp off at the first fret, you're getting pretty darned close.

- Consider ABM Mueller or Hipshot for their headless parts.  They either mount behind the nut or to the end of the neck.
http://www.abmmueller.de/index2.html?headless_units.html
http://store.hipshotproducts.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=353

 

[Damon]

Maybe I'm not following your math right or something, but I don't think using the first fret of a 25.5" neck as a 0 fret will give you a 24.75" neck. I think it gives you something you won't be able to intonate correctly. First, according to the fret scale calculator on stewmac.com, the first fret is at ~1.43", not 1.75". Second, even if it were at 1.75", the difference in scale length from 25.5" to 24.75" is .75", not 1.75". The fret-to-fret spacing as you progress down the neck will be off by a significant percentage, at least as far as intonation goes. You're gonna end up with all of your frets in the wrong places. Please correct me if I'm wrong, though, as I could well be misunderstanding your intent.

If you want 24.75", buy 24.75". If you ask nicely, they might cut the "nut" as a 0-fret (no harm in asking, right?) and you can have someone local put the nut on in the right location.

 

[partialdoctor]

Cool project and very ambitious.

If I may make  non-guitar related aside... As a professional that relies on your hands, you have seen a physician for your issues, correct? I would see a good orthopedic surgeon for a checkup if you haven't already.  (Thats my day job interfering)

Good luck!

 

[AlexSmith]

Wow, thanks for all the replies!
First off, yes, I have been seeing many physicians and am figuring this whole mess out. I'm getting better, albeit very slowly.
Second, thanks for the links to the ABM hardware...that looks like exactly what I need.
Third, thanks for correcting my math. Didn't want to mess that up.

So, it seems that drilling the string clamps in to the 1st fret of the 25.5" scale neck won't work. Next best is to buy the 24.75" neck and have Warmoth help me out with mounting the headless hardware...depending on the price, the ABM stuff is actually more up my alley. So I'll figure out which headpiece is better and a way to mount it.

It seems like doing the body actually won't be too big of a deal, so I'll keep you guys updated on that. Gotta get the template first and go from there.

Thanks thus far, all!

 

[Kadmium]

I don't necessarily want to steer you away from a Warmoth neck, but you might consider buying a headless neck from Moses Graphite. They make them with Steinberger or Strat heels, and they come with a headpiece that works with single or double ball strings. They're available in 24.75" or 25.5" (or probably other scales too - they're pretty accommodating).

 

[AlexSmith]

That sounds great except for the fact that I really don't dig the sound of a graphite neck. Other than that, they're the perfect solution. If the Warmoth thing turns out to be too difficult, I'll suck it up and buy the Moses, though.
Thanks!