ThtOthrPrsn
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Such clean work! Can't wait to see it all assembled!
Binding an L5S
- Thread starter Cagey
- Start date
Cagey
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Great Ape said:
Thanks.
That green is spooky stuff. Either that, or it's somehow tricking my camera. I've got sun shots of it where it almost looks like a pastel, and others where it's super dark. I can't seem to get a shot where it looks like it does in real life to the nekkid eye. Maybe I need to learn more about how my camera works. Something about white balance?
sixstringsamurai
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Dude that came out so nice!
:rock-on:
:rock-on:
Cagey
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I can't find any shots of the interim steps I took to straighten out the finish. Might not have taken any; I don't remember. But, we'll talk about that later. In the meantime, it occurs to me that we should have a neck to go with that body, so here we go.
Some of you regulars may have seen many or all of these shots, but for newer members and/or future reference...
I chose a 24.75" pro conversion Canary over Canary neck with a Warmoth 2 headstock and cream binding. I bought it without a nut or frets so I could burnish the fretboard as well as the rest of the neck...
Mmmm... nekkid Canary neck...
The Warmoth 2 headstock is much like the regular Warmoth headstock, but tuner holes line up horizontally and they're positioned to allow a straighter string pull. Still not a straight pull like you get with a Strat/Tele/Warhead, but close enough for ork 'n' orr...
Mmmm... more nekkid Canary...
First thing I did was burnish the thing, sometimes called "polishing", although there's no compound involved. Purely abrasives moving through progressively finer grits until the thing is smooth as silk...
At 2000 grit
You, too, can have a finish like that. It's not hard and costs very little other than abrasives; it's just time-consuming. See here.
Another thing I like to do to necks these days is something I learned from another member here - "Tonar". He "softens" headstocks by breaking the edges before polishing them, and at the risk of sounding gay, they look delicious. These are his - check 'em out...
Don'tcha just wanna bite one?
Mine's not that nice, but here's where I went...
Next, I'm sure you've noticed the missing frets. Not a problem. First, you need some good fretwire, which you can get from LMII more reasonably than some places I could mention. Then, you need a way to form the stuff to suit your neck. Nickel/silver fretwire is stiff, but gold and stainless are like weapons grade. In any event, you need a bender/straightener tool. I got mine from some guy in Canada, where all the best benders come from...
I've seen/worked with several of these things, and this one is not only the best, it's the least expensive. Go figure. In the above shot, we're straightening. Here, we're re-curving...
The thing got a workout as the neck has the typical Warmoth compound radius (10"-16") so I had to keep re-bending the stuff to follow.
Then, because the neck was bound, I had to relieve the tangs on the frets so they'd miss the binding. Rather than snip them and clean up after, I got a jig that allows you to just grind the tang and be done with it...
Grinding side. Those round black things are rollers that guide the file. The horizontal ones are height adjustable to set the depth
of cut for the file. You clamp the jig into a vise, then clamp a fret into the jig, and you're ready to go.
Rear view. The knob you see at the bottom is used to clamp the fret into the jig.
What you get
Another view
It ends up being faster than the snip & file or Dremel grinder methods we're used to, and gives much better/repeatable results.
Because you sorta need to keep track of the frets while you play with them, it's a good idea to have a numbered holder thingy and to mark the frets you've dealt with...
The reason for this is the frets are of different lengths and radii. You want to slightly overbend each fret for its position, but you don't want to go nuts because, at least in this case or if you were doing stainless, the frets really don't want to bend. Makes it important that they very nearly fit or they're liable to spring back up later. Glue helps, but it's not a panacea. Best to have a close fit to start with.
Once you're past all that, you start pounding the little rascals in...
The only frets Steve Vai needs...
Eventually, you have to put them all in, whether you think you need them or not. Otherwise, people will laugh at you almost as much as they do the guys who scallop their necks. Wait... did I say that out loud? Damn...
You'll end up with a progression like this...
This is the raw neck
This is the initial fret installation
This is after they've been beveled, which is how new Warmoth necks are delivered
This is after they've been levelled, crowned, dressed and polished
One step is left, to even out the binding and do a final polish.
Some of you regulars may have seen many or all of these shots, but for newer members and/or future reference...
I chose a 24.75" pro conversion Canary over Canary neck with a Warmoth 2 headstock and cream binding. I bought it without a nut or frets so I could burnish the fretboard as well as the rest of the neck...
Mmmm... nekkid Canary neck...
The Warmoth 2 headstock is much like the regular Warmoth headstock, but tuner holes line up horizontally and they're positioned to allow a straighter string pull. Still not a straight pull like you get with a Strat/Tele/Warhead, but close enough for ork 'n' orr...
Mmmm... more nekkid Canary...
First thing I did was burnish the thing, sometimes called "polishing", although there's no compound involved. Purely abrasives moving through progressively finer grits until the thing is smooth as silk...
At 2000 grit
You, too, can have a finish like that. It's not hard and costs very little other than abrasives; it's just time-consuming. See here.
Another thing I like to do to necks these days is something I learned from another member here - "Tonar". He "softens" headstocks by breaking the edges before polishing them, and at the risk of sounding gay, they look delicious. These are his - check 'em out...
Don'tcha just wanna bite one?
Mine's not that nice, but here's where I went...
Next, I'm sure you've noticed the missing frets. Not a problem. First, you need some good fretwire, which you can get from LMII more reasonably than some places I could mention. Then, you need a way to form the stuff to suit your neck. Nickel/silver fretwire is stiff, but gold and stainless are like weapons grade. In any event, you need a bender/straightener tool. I got mine from some guy in Canada, where all the best benders come from...
I've seen/worked with several of these things, and this one is not only the best, it's the least expensive. Go figure. In the above shot, we're straightening. Here, we're re-curving...
The thing got a workout as the neck has the typical Warmoth compound radius (10"-16") so I had to keep re-bending the stuff to follow.
Then, because the neck was bound, I had to relieve the tangs on the frets so they'd miss the binding. Rather than snip them and clean up after, I got a jig that allows you to just grind the tang and be done with it...
Grinding side. Those round black things are rollers that guide the file. The horizontal ones are height adjustable to set the depth
of cut for the file. You clamp the jig into a vise, then clamp a fret into the jig, and you're ready to go.
Rear view. The knob you see at the bottom is used to clamp the fret into the jig.
What you get
Another view
It ends up being faster than the snip & file or Dremel grinder methods we're used to, and gives much better/repeatable results.
Because you sorta need to keep track of the frets while you play with them, it's a good idea to have a numbered holder thingy and to mark the frets you've dealt with...
The reason for this is the frets are of different lengths and radii. You want to slightly overbend each fret for its position, but you don't want to go nuts because, at least in this case or if you were doing stainless, the frets really don't want to bend. Makes it important that they very nearly fit or they're liable to spring back up later. Glue helps, but it's not a panacea. Best to have a close fit to start with.
Once you're past all that, you start pounding the little rascals in...
The only frets Steve Vai needs...
Eventually, you have to put them all in, whether you think you need them or not. Otherwise, people will laugh at you almost as much as they do the guys who scallop their necks. Wait... did I say that out loud? Damn...
You'll end up with a progression like this...
This is the raw neck
This is the initial fret installation
This is after they've been beveled, which is how new Warmoth necks are delivered
This is after they've been levelled, crowned, dressed and polished
One step is left, to even out the binding and do a final polish.
sixstringsamurai
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Great tips! thanks for the links.
:headbang:
:headbang:
Cagey
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But wait! Mr. Neck ain't done being tortured into shape yet. Running wood screws into his heel just won't do; we want the ultimate sustainer and we need to make sure the neck will snap before the root ever lets go. So... threaded inserts are in order. Makes for a very tight neck joint - tighter than a standard bolt-on, and a LOT tighter than a glue-up.
No biggie. Just clamp the X/Y axis clampisizer onto the stage of the Drill Press of Doom...
And stay there until you get your mind right!
... and chuck in a 1/4" Forstner bit. Throw a piece of microfiber muppet hide over the jaws to protect the neck we've got a million hours into, and snug it in to where it won't move easily..,
Center up the bit, make sure we've got the depth stop set so we don't drill through the fretboard, and teach that Canary a lesson...
1/4" holes for the inserts, and 3/8" relief for clearance. If you don't sink the inserts below the surface, the neck won't set right in the pocket. If you try to do that without the relief, you almost invariably chew up the insert on the way in. Not really a problem, but you'll never get them back out if you ever need to, as the slots will likely be shot. Again, not a real problem as there's never any reason to remove them. Still - it's an appearance thing. I like things to look right even if nobody ever sees them.
Next, we want to tap the holes so the inserts thread in without fighting like starving dogs over a barbecued chicken. Damn neck wood is harder than a 15 year old first thing in the morning. Cat couldn't scratch it. But, it's pretty straightforward. Basically, you just need a bottoming tap that matches the thread of the inserts you're using. In this case, it's a 5/16 x 15? I don't remember. Doesn't matter; you have to match to your insert, whatever that is.
Also, I fabbed up a quick & dirty alignment tool out of a couple pieces of fuel. Glued them together and drilled a 5/16" hole through them. That's the block you see above. when you hold it tight to the neck and run the tap through it, it insures that you'll tap the hole at 90 degrees to the neck. It's very important that you do that, as machine screws are unforgiving. They must thread straight, or they'll cross-thread and you'll wreck the insert and have to invent all sorts of new cuss words. It's the only downside to this whole ordeal. Wood screws will drive into anything if you'll hold it's tail, but machine screws require precision. So, we do this to tap...
If you hold it tight, the block prevents the tap from moving off 90 degrees to the neck heel
Once done, it'll look like this...
...and once you drive in the inserts, it'll look like this...
No biggie. Just clamp the X/Y axis clampisizer onto the stage of the Drill Press of Doom...
And stay there until you get your mind right!
... and chuck in a 1/4" Forstner bit. Throw a piece of microfiber muppet hide over the jaws to protect the neck we've got a million hours into, and snug it in to where it won't move easily..,
Center up the bit, make sure we've got the depth stop set so we don't drill through the fretboard, and teach that Canary a lesson...
1/4" holes for the inserts, and 3/8" relief for clearance. If you don't sink the inserts below the surface, the neck won't set right in the pocket. If you try to do that without the relief, you almost invariably chew up the insert on the way in. Not really a problem, but you'll never get them back out if you ever need to, as the slots will likely be shot. Again, not a real problem as there's never any reason to remove them. Still - it's an appearance thing. I like things to look right even if nobody ever sees them.
Next, we want to tap the holes so the inserts thread in without fighting like starving dogs over a barbecued chicken. Damn neck wood is harder than a 15 year old first thing in the morning. Cat couldn't scratch it. But, it's pretty straightforward. Basically, you just need a bottoming tap that matches the thread of the inserts you're using. In this case, it's a 5/16 x 15? I don't remember. Doesn't matter; you have to match to your insert, whatever that is.
Also, I fabbed up a quick & dirty alignment tool out of a couple pieces of fuel. Glued them together and drilled a 5/16" hole through them. That's the block you see above. when you hold it tight to the neck and run the tap through it, it insures that you'll tap the hole at 90 degrees to the neck. It's very important that you do that, as machine screws are unforgiving. They must thread straight, or they'll cross-thread and you'll wreck the insert and have to invent all sorts of new cuss words. It's the only downside to this whole ordeal. Wood screws will drive into anything if you'll hold it's tail, but machine screws require precision. So, we do this to tap...
If you hold it tight, the block prevents the tap from moving off 90 degrees to the neck heel
Once done, it'll look like this...
...and once you drive in the inserts, it'll look like this...
DangerousR6
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nice work Kevin, way to show that canary who's boss... :icon_thumright:
Perry Combover
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Cagey, it's posts like this that should boost your business. Outstanding work and thank you for documenting. 
ccasion14:
ccasion14:
Cagey
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Great Ape said:
This is somewhat out-of-sequence, but I was reviewing the thread and saw I had to respond to this again. It turns out my memory was wrong and you're right - stringing a Bigsby-equipped fiddle is a major league pain in the ass. You need at least 3 hands and they'd better be coordinated. I don't know what made me think I never had any trouble with it. Must've been wearing rose-colored glasses, since my first exposure to one was on my first "real" guitar back when I was just a grasshopper.
But, necessity being the mother of invention, I've figured out how to do it with only reasonable hardship. For future reference, owning a clamp-on capo is a Good Thing, even if you don't play Peter, Paul and Mary tunes in chick keys. There are a lot of them out there, similar to this...
You thread the string under the bale behind the bridge and forward of the anchor, but don't try to attach it yet. Get it close, and clamp the string to the neck with the capo. Put a kink in the string 1/2" or so up from the ball end of the string, and feed it up under the Bigsby until you can grab it and secure it to the little post retainer. Hold it there with one hand while you pull the string taut under the capo, and the whole thing stays stable. You can actually take both hands off the guitar at that point and the string will stay in place. Play whatever games your tuner demands, and once the string gets some tension on it, you can release the capo. String stays in place, rather than falling off the peg at the bridge end 55,319 times. Or, maybe that was 62,751 times.
I'm not trying to sell you on the idea of using a Bigsby - as pretty as they are, I still think they're a pitiful piece of hardware - this is just for future reference. Never know when you may have to deal with one of the miserable things.
Incidentally, while I never use a capo for what they're designed for, I still have one very similar to what's pictured above. What I got mine for was clamping replacement nuts in place while the glue dries/cures. They're great for that. Now it's become a necessary piece of gear for dealing with this L5S.
WOWZA Mr Cagey ... spotted the finished product over in GOTM :headbang1:
WOWZA again ..... :hello2:
I'll give ya a
10 for this very informative thread.
10 for your outstanding all round work on this build.
10 for your ongoing great build / progress pic's.
10 for :icon_scratch:
Oh yeah :doh:
10 for the guitar. :icon_thumright:
Looks Bloody Amazing !!
Great work ....
... spotted the finished product over in GOTM :headbang1:WOWZA again ..... :hello2:
I'll give ya a
10 for this very informative thread.
10 for your outstanding all round work on this build.
10 for your ongoing great build / progress pic's.
10 for :icon_scratch:
Oh yeah :doh:
10 for the guitar. :icon_thumright:
Looks Bloody Amazing !!
Great work ....
sixstringsamurai
Hero Member
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- 702
Cagey said:Great Ape said:
This is somewhat out-of-sequence, but I was reviewing the thread and saw I had to respond to this again. It turns out my memory was wrong and you're right - stringing a Bigsby-equipped fiddle is a major league pain in the ass. You need at least 3 hands and they'd better be coordinated. I don't know what made me think I never had any trouble with it. Must've been wearing rose-colored glasses, since my first exposure to one was on my first "real" guitar back when I was just a grasshopper.
But, necessity being the mother of invention, I've figured out how to do it with only reasonable hardship. For future reference, owning a clamp-on capo is a Good Thing, even if you don't play Peter, Paul and Mary tunes in chick keys. There are a lot of them out there, similar to this...
You thread the string under the bale behind the bridge and forward of the anchor, but don't try to attach it yet. Get it close, and clamp the string to the neck with the capo. Put a kink in the string 1/2" or so up from the ball end of the string, and feed it up under the Bigsby until you can grab it and secure it to the little post retainer. Hold it there with one hand while you pull the string taut under the capo, and the whole thing stays stable. You can actually take both hands off the guitar at that point and the string will stay in place. Play whatever games your tuner demands, and once the string gets some tension on it, you can release the capo. String stays in place, rather than falling off the peg at the bridge end 55,319 times. Or, maybe that was 62,751 times.
I'm not trying to sell you on the idea of using a Bigsby - as pretty as they are, I still think they're a pitiful piece of hardware - this is just for future reference. Never know when you may have to deal with one of the miserable things.
Incidentally, while I never use a capo for what they're designed for, I still have one very similar to what's pictured above. What I got mine for was clamping replacement nuts in place while the glue dries/cures. They're great for that. Now it's become a necessary piece of gear for dealing with this L5S.
I never found it that difficult to deal with a Bigsby, I gigged regularly for 5 years playing on one.
I was changing strings every 7-10 days, I have one of those six in one screwdrivers and it is perfect to roll the ball end over, same Radius as the Bigsby.
And locking tuners IMO are key as well.
I will agree Though, they can test your patients.
OFR's.....THOSE frustrate the crap out of me......
Cagey
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sixstringsamurai said:
No doubt. They can be a real challenge to set up and live with. But, if you run the gauntlet to get them there, they do work, which was a LOT more than you could say for anything that came before them. Almost all vibrato bridge designs prior to Floyd's appear to have been designed by children. Certainly no mechanical engineers were involved.
Not too long after Floyd introduced his solution, Trevor Wilkinson improved on it by dramatically simplifying it. This was made possible by the introduction of locking tuners, which most people attribute to Sperzel. I don't know if they were the first, but that's my understanding and memory of history. So, there's no reason to suffer the complexities of the Floyd Rose design, but many do anyway. After all, Eddie Van Halen has been wildly successful and he more or less pioneered using the Floyd bridge here. If EVH uses it, that must be the secret to his playing, right? Everybody has to have one, or they're doomed to failure.
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