A Question for Cagey

[drysideshooter]

Cagey, I am asking you specifically because I saw a thread where you dealt with this same problem back in 2010 or so.

I have a Warmoth hardtail Strat body and a Warmoth neck.  I ordered the body set up for vintage Strat with vintage Strat string spacing. 


I ordered the only Hipshot hardtail bridge that had the right string spacing, and hole spacing for the Warmoth body.  The bridge only has a .090" floor height.  The mounting screw spacing and string holes line up perfectly with the Warmoth body.  The mounting screws are .890" center to center, and the string holes are .446" center to center.  Those holes line up perfectly with the Warmoth body holes. Hipshot has two other hardtail bridges, one with a .125" floor height and one with a .175" floor height, but the holes would be off with my body as the mounting screws are .875" center to center and the string spacing is .416". 


The problem, as you can imagine, is that the adjustment screws in the saddles are are almost screwed all of the way out of the bottom of the saddles and I still have a bit more to go.  At this point I would rather not do what you did, which is route the neck pocket deeper.  I would rather replace the bridge.  Do you know what hardtail bridge will worth with the Warmoth body set up for the vintage spacing?  Looking on the Warmoth website it doesn't give great diimensions of the hardtail bridge they sell, but from what I can tell it doesn't look like the floor height is any thicker.

Any help would be genuinely appreciated.

 

[Cagey]

Normally, I dislike using shims in the neck pocket, but there are some better parts available now....

These are made of hardwood (Maple), and don't leave any tone/sustain-robbing gaps in the pocket.They come in several different angles, so you can use as necessary or combine to create what's needed. Using those, you can angle the neck to adjust string height. They're available here.

 

[drysideshooter]

Thanks Cagey.  I have concerns that using a shim to angle the neck won't fix the problem along the entire neck and I would still potentially have clearance issues on one end of the neck. I need the neck to go down, and worry that adding the thickness of a shim is only going to make it worse. Would you go that route instead of deepening the neck pocket or removing some material from the back of the neck?  I have good clearance between the neck and the pickguard, so some material could also be removed from the back of the neck?

I'm surprised Warmoth doesn't have something on the website suggesting the 720 mod with the vintage hardtail bridge setup.  I have read about the 720 mod but don't actually see it listed as an option on the website. 

 

[Cagey]

It's a geometry thing. It might seem counter-intuitive at first blush, but angling the  headstock forward has the effect of moving the heel down relative to string height, and vice-versa.

Sometimes people try to use the truss rod to do this, but that's wrong because it changes the linearity of the neck, creating new problems.

 

[mayfly]

If you wanted to see if it was going to work or not before you spent money on shims, get a business card, cut 1/4" (or 5mm depending on what's on the ruler in your part of the world) off the end, and put that under the neck.  Position it at the heel end closest to the neck pickup.

If it cures the problem, then go out and spend money on shims.

 

[chapogrelo]

I believe that since he wants the strings further from the neck, he wants the headstock to be raised.
In my opinion, the shim should be placed on the other side of the heel, far away from the pickup.

 

[drysideshooter]

I genuinely appreciate the help.  I understand that if I place a shim in a way that would lower the headstock it will increase the distance from the strings to the fretboard over the length of most of the neck, but at the heel end of the neck it's going to raise the neck by the thickness of the shim at the thick end, right?

Doing some more reading it seems that the Hipshot bridge I have, at .090" thick isn't that much different than what the Fender bridge is.  Maybe I'm over reacting because it seems odd to have used so much of the adjustment?  My low E is about 1.6mm above the 12th fret right now and plays fine.  The frets are 6150's.  Looking at my Strat with the 6 point trem this morning the adjustment screws are much longer, but the distance from the bottom of the saddle to the bridge looks very similar to where I have ended up on the hardtail.  I will try to get a decent picture later and see what everyone thinks.

I have a mill and a drill press.  I could fab a 1/16" thick or so base/shim to go under the entire bridge, but I wonder if, even with good contact all over, if it might kill harmonics a bit? I'd want to do it out of metal to avoid having to run the ground wire through the base to the bridge.  Probably a bad idea?

 

[bagman67]

I suspect - and I admit I have no statistical evidence to prove this, only anecdotal - that worrying overmuch about the shim material is time not well spent.  Hordes of bolt-neck instruments have shims made of business cards, scrap veneer, aluminum folk, paper masking tape, and whatever else is handy.  And they sound fine.  It's reasonable to not want to introduce a new problem by solving the existing one, but the likelihood of a new problem obtruding in this case is minimal.

 

[drysideshooter]

I suspect - and I admit I have no statistical evidence to prove this, only anecdotal - that worrying overmuch about the shim material is time not well spent.  Hordes of bolt-neck instruments have shims made of business cards, scrap veneer, aluminum folk, paper masking tape, and whatever else is handy.  And they sound fine.  It's reasonable to not want to introduce a new problem by solving the existing one, but the likelihood of a new problem obtruding in this case is minimal.

I had sent an email to Warmoth, and that is prett much what Spike said in his reply Bagman67.  I just got done with the set-up an intonation, and with the saddles in their final position I was actually able to lower the saddles a bit.  Comparing it to a Fender Strat I have with a 6 point trem the saddles are now a bit closer to the bridge on the new build.  The fender saddle screws are just much longer.  Just because it seems stronger, I will probably eventually replace the saddle screws with some that are a bit longer.  Does anyone know if the Hipshot saddle screws are the same size/pitch as the Fender ones?

I just plugged it in for the first time and I am very happy.  I went SSS with custom shop Texas Specials and added 7 way switching with a toggle for the neck pickup.  It seems to have the quack and Stratiness that I was looking for.  I really like the staggered Hipshot locking tuners.  I have fairly large hands and the vintage string spacing really feels good to me. 


Thanks everyone for the help and advice, it is genuinely appreciated.