Will this weird Gretsch tailpiece work on Warmoth's Tune-O-Matic route?

Stilgar138

Active member
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I'm going to start a project in the not too distant future and a friend half jokingly suggested this tailpiece to me. I actually like it and might use one if I can find out if it it works. From what I've found, the stud holes for this are 18mm whereas the ones on the standard Warmoth Tune-O-Matic/stop bar are 11mm. I can't find measurements for where the tailpiece wraps around the stud and am wondering if it would work. The other thing that's different is the spacing overall is a half millimeter wider. Is there enough wiggle room for that to work? Will studs drilled for the 11mm Warmoth uses work? I'm not dead set on this and if it doesn't work, I'll go for either a string through or stopbar. If I know it'll work, I'll then figure out how much I want to use one.


v-stop.jpg



Here's a Reverb listing that has some measurements.

https://reverb.com/item/23154321-770-9343-000-gretsch-nickel-v-stop-chevron-guitar-tailpiece-streamliner
 

stratamania

Senior member
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9,204
Hi and Welcome to the forum.

I would be surprised if anyone has used one and is able to give you a definitive answer.

Per the measurements at the Reverb link you posted, I am not sure where you have 18mm for stud holes.  The dimension in red I have added below.

Studs measure 15/32" (11.9mm approx)Diameter. Tailpiece slots measure 3-1/4" (82.5mm) center to center; 4" (102mm) Total Width; 29/64" (11.5mm) Thick.

Would it fit? 

The best bet would be to order the Warmoth body with a Gotoh or Tone Pros tailpiece and have the studs installed. There is a good chance that the V shaped Gretsch version will fit on those studs and inserts. If you are in the US and the shipping is reasonable it is probably worth a punt for $30. If for some reason it did not work you already then have a tailpiece ready to go.

Caveat, advice based on best endeavours etc and provided without guarantee.
 

Stilgar138

Active member
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34
Yeah, I didn't think it''d be too likely anyone had done it haha.

I'm not entirely sure where I got the 18 either, I did a lot of packing yesterday and was really tired when I was looking reading on this.

I was thinking of using Tonepros anyway and have them install the studs, maybe I'll order one and take the chance. If it doesn't work, I'll just use the Tonepros. I was thinking about it and I don't mind not having a locking tailpiece, it's the locking bridge that I'm really after.

I accept your caveat as well. Although it would be nice if someone could say for certain, I know this is an odd question. I'm also still really thinking about the string through as well, that way no tailpiece needed and I can get the locking bridge by itself. I was also really tired when the whole idea of this tailpiece started, now that I'm more awake, I'm not sure I'm feeling it as much lol.
 

stratamania

Senior member
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9,204
I am pretty sure it would work as I described but obviously I can not provide a guarantee.

If you are also considering string thru with ferrules a couple of other things to consider which are:

A TOM and Tailpiece require a slightly angled neck pocket in the body.
A TOM with string thru with ferrules are for recessed TOMs.

https://warmoth.com/guitar-bridge-routs
 

Stilgar138

Active member
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34
A couple questions on the string through option, will a Tonepros locking work? I'm not sure if the recess is low enough to make it impossible to tighten the locking screws down. Is it at all possible for the strings to touch the back of the bridge before going over the saddles? I'm trying to cover my bases here and find out what I can to avoid any potential problems before they start.

Although I think the string through looks cool, part of me keeps thinking I should just go with the stop tail. Sometimes, something crazy attracts me quickly but I end up deciding to not do it. I feel that's the case with that Gretsch tailpiece. If I do a stopbar, I'm going to go with Tonepros there too. Although I don't feel the tailpiece locking is as important as the bridge, I do like the idea of both locking. My entire idea for the guitar is crazy but I think I've had plenty of time with it to know I'm still going to like it when time comes to order.

I think this is the last question and I should be in good shape. With using the CBS reverse headstock, can I use staggered tuners to avoid having to use string trees? I'm not sure what tuners I'll use but I'd rather avoid string trees. I admit, it's just because I think it'd look cooler without any.

I truly appreciate the help. I'm perhaps over complicating things but I really want to make the right choices to make it go as smoothly as possible.
 

stratamania

Senior member
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9,204
Per the bridge, yes I think you are over thinking it and I am sure Warmoth have designed the angles and so forth to work as expected.

There is no reason you could not use staggered tuners with a reverse CBS headstock, you would need to use a right side, or Left hand set.
 

Stilgar138

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It wouldn't be the first time I've overthought something haha. I'm sure your right, I'd venture a guess that's why they recessed the bridge to give it a less extreme angle. String through or stop bar is proving to be the toughest thing to decide on. I'll figure it out, I've got plenty of time to think it over.

I was thinking staggered tuners should work, the only thing that had me guessing was CBS headstocks  sometimes have two string trees. I picked the CBS both because it's different from my Fenders and I just like it. I also just thought it'd be fun to reverse it too. I've seen some very nice looking sets that are available in lefty, I'm going to read up some more to decide what to use and make sure to check which size holes to get it drilled for.

Once again, I really appreciate the help.
 

teleme01

Senior member
Messages
360
Stilgar138 said:
  I picked the CBS both because it's different from my Fenders and I just like it. I also just thought it'd be fun to reverse it too. I've seen some very nice looking sets that are available in lefty, I'm going to read up some more to decide what to use and make sure to check which size holes to get it drilled for.
that is the nubmer one reason to get something is because you like it.  aint nobody else payin for it, so why please anybody but oneself
 

Stilgar138

Active member
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34
That's my thought in doing a Warmoth. I don't always but sometimes, I just like something crazy and Warmoth has the options to get crazy. This is definitely one for me, I'm not really concerned what anyone else thinks but I admit, I hope some get what I'm going for haha. I'm going for an atomic age meets heavy metal kind of thing lol. There's definitely an influence from the Fallout games in going for that style.

Here's the thread I made asking about the string through route. Like I said, this is the toughest decision I'm having to make on whether or not to go with that or a stopbar. I think I've pretty well decided against the Gretsch tailpiece. It was one of those crazy ideas that didn't stick with me. The basic idea for this guitar is one that's sticking with me though. Also, I messed up and called the option I would use staggered, it's actually the angled.

https://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=34000.0
 

stratamania

Senior member
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9,204
Here is a link to one of my builds. It has a CBS reverse headstock, vintage F tuners and only one string tree. A Malmsteen Strat with a CBS headstock with the same type of tuners, only has one string tree.

Max goes to Woodstock (Gallery)

Normally on non vintage style builds I do not use string trees.

If you use staggered locking tuner you probably will not need any string tree. Though it is an easy enough thing to add one at a later stage if you decide you must have one.
 

Stilgar138

Active member
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34
That is a beaut! That makes me think I might do a reverse body Strat one of these days. I also love that color on Strats.

I think I'll give staggered tuners a try without and if it seems like I need a string tree, I'll put one on. I admit that it's just because I think it'd look cooler without that I'm not wanting to use one but I think function is more important than looks. If I feel it's needed, I'll put one on. I'm thinking with staggered tuners, I'll probably only need one if I need any.
 

stratamania

Senior member
Messages
9,204
Thanks.  One thing to consider about the reverse Strat body is you don't have great upper fret access due to the nature of it. Though it is probably why Hendrix did not play much above the 15th fret or so but still seemed to conjure enough notes.

You probably will not need a string tree. But if you need to add one then one would be more than sufficient.
 

Stilgar138

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34
I don't think it'd bother me. I have pretty big mitts and don't play that high very much anyway. I always thought it was interesting Jimi always stuck with right handed Strats, I guess that was just what he was used to and they were and still are far, far more readily available. I'm a natural lefty myself but learned to play guitar righty. Once I learned how hard it can be to find left handed guitars and how much more expensive they can be, it seemed the right choice. I was a fan of Jimi then too but I thought he played with the strings still strung right handed at the time. The option to flip them never dawned on me. I wanted to play with the strings the right way so playing a flipped over righty never seemed an option. Besides that, I feel like my left hand is much more dexterous than my right and I've always felt I made the right call anyway.

I think I've decided to go for the string through and I think I'm going with Hipshot tuners. I'm thinking about whether or not to go for locking, I don't have any locking tuners on my guitars and any tuning issues I've had have been at the nut anyway. I decided to invest in some Music Nomad nut files as well. I had a mishap trying to widen the slots on one of my guitars with sandpaper a while back and thought I'd never mess with that again but I think it's worth trying to learn to do it with the proper tools. I'll read up on it before doing anything but if I mess it up, it can be replaced. I've got a guitar that could use a little filing and I think I'll use that to practice on. I don't know that I'll ever mess with frets but I would like to learn to properly file nuts. I would like to learn how to do it all on guitars but I'm not sure I have the nerve to go as far as frets. I know Warmoth says they don't level frets so I'm going to see how they are and I think it'll be the one thing I'll take it to a shop for if I think it needs work. I'm to try to do everything else myself. It's ambitious for me but I think it'll be fun. I really enjoyed my Jazz Bass project.

Here's how it turned out. Like I said in the thread asking about the 720 mod, the finishing could have gone better but for a first time project, I'm really happy with it. The reason for the change of control plate from chrome to black was the holes were too small in the chrome one to put the pots in. The only one I could find without ordering was the black one I found at Sam Ash. I think I like it better but it's an easy change if I want a chrome one, I'd just have to order it. I'm far more of a guitar player(not that I'm claiming much there either haha) than a bass player but my dad got the body for me because he thought it'd be something different. I've thought about getting a Jazz Bass one day so it worked out great.

https://postimg.cc/gallery/kG9VXYx
 

teleme01

Senior member
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360
you got me thinkin with that jimi upside down stuff,  so,  could a left handed tele with a left handed neck with a righthanded nutt work for a right handed player?  paranormal reverse jimi?  obviously it would restrict access to upper register and would only be a novelty thing,  probably have weird neck balance issues.  sorry to type and share something  so :special:
 

Stilgar138

Active member
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34
I imagine you could, you'd have to intonate the bridge for that but I can't imagine why it wouldn't work. People certainly have done the "Reverse Jimi" and flipped over left handed Strats to be strung and played right handed to try to capture Jimi's tone. Jimi even used a right handed Les Paul at one point, talk about killing upper fret access! He did have Gibson make him a left handed Flying V but that's a shape that would work either way. Then he had a right handed SG Custom, there wouldn't be much difference either way on that. I got to see it at the Hard Rock Vault in Orlando years ago but, of course, sadly, I wasn't allowed to touch it haha.

I've never done it myself but I've heard just a modified pickguard to reverse the angle of the bridge pickup gets close to getting the Jimi sound. A left handed bridge on a Tele would do the same thing. With the pickup plate, I think some routing would have to be done though.
 

Stilgar138

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34
Well, I decided to go for it. I went ahead and ordered the tailpiece, I thought I'd should get one while it was available. The more I think about it, the more I think it's worth the chance. Would there be any reason I couldn't use the Gotoh tailpiece with a Tonepros bridge? I don't mind not having a locking tailpiece and it'd save me some dough. I think that'll be my last question on this subject haha. I really don't know why this became such a hard thing to come to a conclusion on. Making the order committed me to Tune-O-Matic/stop bar. Either way it goes, I know I'll have something that serves me well.

I've got an idea if the Grestch doesn't work on the Switchback, if it'll work, I'll put it on my Firebird instead. I think it'll fit in with its style and it's  a Firebird V so it seems all the more fitting.
 

stratamania

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9,204
There is no reason why you cannot mix and match Gotoh TOMs and tailpieces. Or any other for that matter as long as they are compatible fit wise.
 

Stilgar138

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34
I couldn't come up with any reason not to be able to mix and match as long as everything's the right size. From what I've been able to gather, it'll work just fine. I only ask because there are times when something seems like it should work but it doesn't for reasons that never would have dawned on me haha. That's the plan then. I wouldn't mind paying up for the locking tailpiece if that was what I wanted but since I've got another in mind, it's hard to want to pay that much. I feel good to go on the bridge now.

I double checked on the tuners and the Hipshot hole measurement is the same as the Planet Waves option Warmoth has. So I'm good to go on those too.

When something gets me excited like this has, I think ahead and like to get the materials figured out early. I'm feeling good on what I've got planned now. I wish I could have it all now to start working on but that's just not possible. I know I'll have moments of feeling impatient once I've made the order for the body and neck but I definitely think it'll be well worth the wait.

Yet again, thank you for all the help! You may not have been able to absolutely answer on that tailpiece but it was a help, I feel the chances are good it's going to work and I finally decided it's worth a try. I do think string through looks cool but I really think I'll be happier with a stoptail regardless of which tailpiece I end up using.
 

stratamania

Senior member
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9,204
Okay...

On the tuners.

For Hipshots use Schaller / Sperzel (25/64" - 9.92mm)

The Planet waves bore the Hipshots will be loose which is not what you want.

Be prepared to possibly have to tune the size of the holes as paint or finish mean you may need to use a reamer or use some sandpaper wrapped around a dowel or pencil to adjust the fit.
 

Stilgar138

Active member
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34
Here's the ones I was looking at, it says there 13/32" [10mm], which is the same as Warmoth's Planet Waves measurement.

https://hipshotproducts.com/collections/guitar-tuning-machines/products/guitar-tuner-upgrade-kits?variant=45712580872

I truly appreciate your help. I'm not trying to be a pain in the butt, I'm just trying to get it right. Which do you think would be a better choice, those are these Fenders? On the Hipshots, I was thinking of going for the Classics rather than locking. I've not had any problems with non-locking tuners myself but it could be nice to have locking. The thing is I'm having a harder time finding left handed staggered tuners than I initially thought. I could also just use a string tree on the low E and A and forget about staggered. That wouldn't bother me. I was going for the look of not having one but function is more important.

https://www.fender.com/en-US/parts/tuning-machines/locking-stratocastertelecaster-tuning-machines-left-handed/0990818102.html
 
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