What ARE we doing wrong?
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whitebison66
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That's why I used wood... (see avatar).
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pscates
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That's definitely a "hang on the wall, behind glass" item. But $25,000 is still insane. I don't know...
I guess there are huge VH fans with more money than sense out there somewhere. Can't imagine this thing selling tons, but I guess a few people will get one. Definitely a cool conversation piece if you can swing it! Would be cool to watch the looks on people's faces as they enter your house and see it hanging there (especially if they're music fans).
But yeah, I'd rather put that $25,000 toward a dozen other things...even if that $25,000 could only be spent on guitar-oriented things, that's still an awesome Gretsch or two, a Jazzmaster, a few Teles, a Burgundy Mist Strat, a nice Gibson Hummingbird or Dove, a few Danos, maybe a Rick 12-string and a Warmoth project or three. You know, the good stuff...cool, classic guitars! Oh, and a couple of Fender basses, for good measure...some sort of a P, and a J as well.
:icon_smile:
$25,000 on a single guitar? No thanks.
I guess there are huge VH fans with more money than sense out there somewhere. Can't imagine this thing selling tons, but I guess a few people will get one. Definitely a cool conversation piece if you can swing it! Would be cool to watch the looks on people's faces as they enter your house and see it hanging there (especially if they're music fans).
But yeah, I'd rather put that $25,000 toward a dozen other things...even if that $25,000 could only be spent on guitar-oriented things, that's still an awesome Gretsch or two, a Jazzmaster, a few Teles, a Burgundy Mist Strat, a nice Gibson Hummingbird or Dove, a few Danos, maybe a Rick 12-string and a Warmoth project or three. You know, the good stuff...cool, classic guitars! Oh, and a couple of Fender basses, for good measure...some sort of a P, and a J as well.
:icon_smile:
$25,000 on a single guitar? No thanks.
jackthehack
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"$25,000 on a single guitar? No thanks..."
I'd agree unless it was a '57 Strat or LP....
I'd agree unless it was a '57 Strat or LP....
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pscates
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Even then, why? What would you do with it? Would it be more for historical/cultural purposes (preservation and display), or would it be more for the pursuit of some elusive, mythical tone that you believe isn't available in its modern-day counterpart (and so you'd play them regularly, out and about)?
I couldn't bring myself to it. Even if I had that kind of money, a) I'd feel uneasy about taking it out and playing it anywhere (for obvious reasons...some staggering puddinghead spilling his beer all over it, etc.), and b) I'm not much for the "museum-ification" of classic instruments (again, for obvious reasons...a guitar - any instrument - is meant to be played, IMO). That's just my personal feelings on it...if I want stuff on my walls, I'll buy a painting. Makes a lot more sense, and is prettier to look at.
:icon_smile:
So it's a stalemate...too worried to play 'em and can't stand the idea of putting them behind glass, where they sit untouched and unused (that makes a guitar sad, I bet).
I'd rather just not get involved, and not have to struggle with those kinds of choices! Probably why I've never craved owning something that old, classic and prized...I'd not know quite what to do with the damn thing!
:icon_tongue:
The whole vintage guitar market is completely out-of-whack and insane anyway. I used to follow it (subscribed to the magazines and newsletters, attended the big shows, kept up with the trends and prices, etc.), but it just gets a bit ridiculous after a while. Makes your head spin when you stop and think about it all. LOL.
I'm thankful I got to see, touch and hear some of the wonderful instruments involved, don't get me wrong. But still...
:icon_smile:
These days, I'd just rather buy new (or slightly used on eBay), or, in the case of Warmoth, "roll my own", and get something truly "me" and unique.
I couldn't bring myself to it. Even if I had that kind of money, a) I'd feel uneasy about taking it out and playing it anywhere (for obvious reasons...some staggering puddinghead spilling his beer all over it, etc.), and b) I'm not much for the "museum-ification" of classic instruments (again, for obvious reasons...a guitar - any instrument - is meant to be played, IMO). That's just my personal feelings on it...if I want stuff on my walls, I'll buy a painting. Makes a lot more sense, and is prettier to look at.
:icon_smile:
So it's a stalemate...too worried to play 'em and can't stand the idea of putting them behind glass, where they sit untouched and unused (that makes a guitar sad, I bet).
I'd rather just not get involved, and not have to struggle with those kinds of choices! Probably why I've never craved owning something that old, classic and prized...I'd not know quite what to do with the damn thing!
:icon_tongue:
The whole vintage guitar market is completely out-of-whack and insane anyway. I used to follow it (subscribed to the magazines and newsletters, attended the big shows, kept up with the trends and prices, etc.), but it just gets a bit ridiculous after a while. Makes your head spin when you stop and think about it all. LOL.
I'm thankful I got to see, touch and hear some of the wonderful instruments involved, don't get me wrong. But still...
:icon_smile:
These days, I'd just rather buy new (or slightly used on eBay), or, in the case of Warmoth, "roll my own", and get something truly "me" and unique.
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pscates
Guest
So the keyboard stuff is pre-tracked, and they play to it? Yikes...not much room for error (or "vamping, and catching up") if something goes wrong, huh? Wouldn't it probably be easier - and safer - to just teach one of the roadies or techs how to play "Jump" on the keyboard, and he can come out for that one song (and maybe a few others they did with those signature keyboard parts: "Why Can't This Be Love" and "Dreams")? That's what I'd do. Heck, teach it to several of them, and they could have a nightly, rotating "your 10-15 minutes on stage with Eddie and the boys" pool to see whose turn it is to go up and play at any given stop along the tour?
:icon_smile:
Might keep something like this from happening again. I'd hate to be a slave to a carved-in-stone, unforgiving pre-recorded track! Ugh...
I'd trust - and have more faith in - a mediocre human player more than I would an inflexible backing track.
:icon_smile:
Might keep something like this from happening again. I'd hate to be a slave to a carved-in-stone, unforgiving pre-recorded track! Ugh...
I'd trust - and have more faith in - a mediocre human player more than I would an inflexible backing track.
bpmorton777
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in some cases, depending on how much keyboard work is required, a band will have a guy under the stage playing the keyboard parts. Yes did this on the 9012live tour when they did the song "Hold On" during the Jon Anderson/vocoder part. I would agree that VH should have paid some guy to play this crap under the stage so nothing would go wrong.
Brian
Brian
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pscates
Guest
Yeah, I didn't think about that (out of sight, etc.). You'd probably want him to have some sort of visual contact with Eddie or Alex, I would think. Having some guy tucked below the stage might result in some sloppiness or missed cues a bit as well. But either way...I think live would trump "playing to backing track" any day of the week.
There was a band who came to my city years and years ago, at one of the popular downtown music clubs. This place traditionally had guitar-based cover bands (just typical party/dance band stuff, nothing special or spectacular...just "get 'em drinking and dancing" type of stuff). Anyway, they brought in some band one Saturday night that was more like Depeche Mode in that they were all keyboard-based, with pre-programmed drums and sequencer parts, etc.
Anyway, something went horribly wrong (faulty gear or components) and they basically couldn't do their gig because everything hinged on tracks that wouldn't load or play. I was next door at a billiards place and wandered over just to hear some live music (I knew a bartender and one of the co-owners of this club) and all I saw were scrambling, frazzled musicians, ticked-off, upset management, overworked bartenders and snotty club-goers yelling stuff.
It didn't go well at all, and, to my knowledge, they never played a note that night. Place thinned out after a while and it was just a big "nothing" when all was said and done. Here it was, 10:00pm on a Saturday night and you could basically hear crickets chirping. This place routinely packed 'em in every weekend, so there's no telling the hit they took that night, and just the downer vibe that hung about. My buddy was on the phone, trying to book another band and calling everyone he knew who was in a band.
:icon_biggrin:
Ever since then (this was early 90's), I always had an "iffy" vibe about such approaches. Their entire band was based on this, so it wasn't like they could just leave out some synth or "horn" parts and continue on with guitars and drums...they HAD no guitars and drums.
:icon_tongue:
I'd not want to be at the mercy of fickle electronic/digital gear to such a degree...you're just asking for it. These guys learned a tough lesson that night.
I suppose if you're Depeche Mode, you've got a group of techs, really top-notch gear and redundant systems in place to keep this sort of thing from happening in an arena full of paying fans. But if you're just some regional, synth-based cover act traveling around in a van (and your entire rhythm section is in a little box or rack)...
There was a band who came to my city years and years ago, at one of the popular downtown music clubs. This place traditionally had guitar-based cover bands (just typical party/dance band stuff, nothing special or spectacular...just "get 'em drinking and dancing" type of stuff). Anyway, they brought in some band one Saturday night that was more like Depeche Mode in that they were all keyboard-based, with pre-programmed drums and sequencer parts, etc.
Anyway, something went horribly wrong (faulty gear or components) and they basically couldn't do their gig because everything hinged on tracks that wouldn't load or play. I was next door at a billiards place and wandered over just to hear some live music (I knew a bartender and one of the co-owners of this club) and all I saw were scrambling, frazzled musicians, ticked-off, upset management, overworked bartenders and snotty club-goers yelling stuff.
It didn't go well at all, and, to my knowledge, they never played a note that night. Place thinned out after a while and it was just a big "nothing" when all was said and done. Here it was, 10:00pm on a Saturday night and you could basically hear crickets chirping. This place routinely packed 'em in every weekend, so there's no telling the hit they took that night, and just the downer vibe that hung about. My buddy was on the phone, trying to book another band and calling everyone he knew who was in a band.
:icon_biggrin:
Ever since then (this was early 90's), I always had an "iffy" vibe about such approaches. Their entire band was based on this, so it wasn't like they could just leave out some synth or "horn" parts and continue on with guitars and drums...they HAD no guitars and drums.
:icon_tongue:
I'd not want to be at the mercy of fickle electronic/digital gear to such a degree...you're just asking for it. These guys learned a tough lesson that night.
I suppose if you're Depeche Mode, you've got a group of techs, really top-notch gear and redundant systems in place to keep this sort of thing from happening in an arena full of paying fans. But if you're just some regional, synth-based cover act traveling around in a van (and your entire rhythm section is in a little box or rack)...
bpmorton777
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to sort of get back to the original post....i read an article once about how a guy had owned a 1950's Gibson L5 and had sold it because he didnt want to be the guy who accidently ran over it with a car. He said that you were never the owner of an instrument like that, you were just keeping it nice for the next guy.
i dont think that the VH strat will ever attain this level of collectibility and probably be on huge discount next xmass.
Brian
i dont think that the VH strat will ever attain this level of collectibility and probably be on huge discount next xmass.
Brian
Undertaker4
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Pretty sure on this tour that VH has a live keyboard player who plays offstage.
If you pull up other vids of this same tour, you'll hear that the keyboards were in tune with other nights, just not in tune with the guitar (the keyboard is tuned a half-step higher than the record). If you notice the guitar tech on the side, he's trying to give EVH a new guitar but EVH isn't looking his way.
The guitar tech simply handed him the wrong guitar.
If you pull up other vids of this same tour, you'll hear that the keyboards were in tune with other nights, just not in tune with the guitar (the keyboard is tuned a half-step higher than the record). If you notice the guitar tech on the side, he's trying to give EVH a new guitar but EVH isn't looking his way.
The guitar tech simply handed him the wrong guitar.
bpmorton777
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"I'd not want to be at the mercy of fickle electronic/digital gear to such a degree...you're just asking for it. These guys learned a tough lesson that night.
I suppose if you're Depeche Mode, you've got a group of techs, really top-notch gear and redundant systems in place to keep this sort of thing from happening in an arena full of paying fans. But if you're just some regional, synth-based cover act traveling around in a van (and your entire rhythm section is in a little box or rack)..."
this DID happen to depeche mode. they had a glitch in the middle of a song and had to start over after a reboot....and then played the song note-for-note like the time before......is it live, or is it depeche mode?
Brian
I suppose if you're Depeche Mode, you've got a group of techs, really top-notch gear and redundant systems in place to keep this sort of thing from happening in an arena full of paying fans. But if you're just some regional, synth-based cover act traveling around in a van (and your entire rhythm section is in a little box or rack)..."
this DID happen to depeche mode. they had a glitch in the middle of a song and had to start over after a reboot....and then played the song note-for-note like the time before......is it live, or is it depeche mode?
Brian
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pscates
Guest
bpmorton777 said:
Yeah, $799 (with a free stringwinder, three picks and VH 2007 tour T-shirt). Gig-bag/case not included... :laughing7:
bpmorton777 said:
Probably a good bit of both, I'd imagine. I don't know much about them, honestly. Just that they're 96% synth-based and undoubtedly encounter some glitches from time to time (but probably have a savvy, on-top-of-it crew to take care of it when it happens).
Soloshchenko
Senior Member
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pscates said:
I agree, played a few vintage pieces that while set up pretty well still had a vintage feel to them. I just find with vintage stuff you can't really express yourself cos your scared of dropping the f*cker AND in a weird way you have to deal the problems hat come with a well played instrument like strange feeling pots, neck binding not being original, one PU being less powerful than the other.
Its nostalgia for the sake of it IMO, I could build better guitars from W parts than a lot of vintage pieces that cost more than cars, its crazy.
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pscates
Guest
Well, you have to take into account that everything cycles around and has its time. And that some things are sometimes artificially inflated or made important by factors that have nothing to do with the real value or pieces involved. All kinds of nutty stuff like that comes into play as well.
As time marches forward, years, models and brands that weren't so highly thought-of at one point will suddenly become hot.
I remember back in the late 80's and early 90's, when you could still find '57 Strats and '59 Les Pauls at shows (or you could stumble across a '66 Jazzmaster in a pawn shop for less than $300)...people wanted nothing to do with anything from the late 60's or 70's. The CBS Fender stuff wasn't desired, and the three-bolt necks and large headstocks were like kryptonite to a collector or vintage nut. But then those got popular and sought after. Whether by necessity (everything else that was older was snapped up or out of the average person's financial reach), or the 70's became popular again, and so did everything associated with it.
So you've got some of these guitars that you couldn't give away in 1992 suddenly, in 2005 or whatever, going for four-digits.
Kinda makes me want to buy a current, production line American Standard Tele or Strat, stick it in its case and not let anyone see or touch it for 50 years. Then it'll sell for $14,000 in 2057!
:icon_biggrin:
Sometimes nostalgia and true sentimentality kick in, and I like that. It means something to someone...a true connection (as opposed to an investment or wall-hanging opportunity). But it's neat that the major manufacturers are producing really nice, well-made reissues of their most popular, iconic models to satisfy that thirst, at a comparatively reasonable price to the real thing.
I know this sounds completely crazy, but honestly, given a choice...I'd so much rather have a '52 reissue butterscotch Tele from Fender than the real thing. And that stems strictly from my own personal "guitars are made to be played" belief/stance. I'd just feel much better about taking it out into the world, playing it, making it mine, not worrying about any bumps or dings, etc. And I wouldn't baby it to the point of absurdity. But it still has that cool, classic and old look. If I had a real '52 Tele, it would probably never leave the house...and where's the fun in that?
And you can't discount looks and appearance in these situations. We like to act like we're above and beyond such things, but we're not. I fully cop to the shallow desire to have the look and vibe of a cool, classic guitar, but not the price and fragility associated with the real thing. To me, it's a nice compromise and solution. I'm not trying to trick anyone into thinking that my '52 reissue is a real '52 Tele...but people who are in the know will look at it and go "cool, this guy likes classic stuff...good taste!" or whatever. They know where I'm coming from, without me having to spend $18,000 to prove it.
That's why this EVH (how's that for a segue?) thing for $25,000 is such a hoot. It's the epitome of a homemade, "from the artist's heart" type of creation, and we've calculated how much it would really cost to build (or how much Eddie probably has in it). Yet, there it is - bicycle reflectors and all - and selling for the price of a nice Honda sedan.
Funny stuff, guitars...I love 'em to death. But I sure don't always understand them.
:guitaristgif: :icon_tongue:
As time marches forward, years, models and brands that weren't so highly thought-of at one point will suddenly become hot.
I remember back in the late 80's and early 90's, when you could still find '57 Strats and '59 Les Pauls at shows (or you could stumble across a '66 Jazzmaster in a pawn shop for less than $300)...people wanted nothing to do with anything from the late 60's or 70's. The CBS Fender stuff wasn't desired, and the three-bolt necks and large headstocks were like kryptonite to a collector or vintage nut. But then those got popular and sought after. Whether by necessity (everything else that was older was snapped up or out of the average person's financial reach), or the 70's became popular again, and so did everything associated with it.
So you've got some of these guitars that you couldn't give away in 1992 suddenly, in 2005 or whatever, going for four-digits.
Kinda makes me want to buy a current, production line American Standard Tele or Strat, stick it in its case and not let anyone see or touch it for 50 years. Then it'll sell for $14,000 in 2057!
:icon_biggrin:
Sometimes nostalgia and true sentimentality kick in, and I like that. It means something to someone...a true connection (as opposed to an investment or wall-hanging opportunity). But it's neat that the major manufacturers are producing really nice, well-made reissues of their most popular, iconic models to satisfy that thirst, at a comparatively reasonable price to the real thing.
I know this sounds completely crazy, but honestly, given a choice...I'd so much rather have a '52 reissue butterscotch Tele from Fender than the real thing. And that stems strictly from my own personal "guitars are made to be played" belief/stance. I'd just feel much better about taking it out into the world, playing it, making it mine, not worrying about any bumps or dings, etc. And I wouldn't baby it to the point of absurdity. But it still has that cool, classic and old look. If I had a real '52 Tele, it would probably never leave the house...and where's the fun in that?
And you can't discount looks and appearance in these situations. We like to act like we're above and beyond such things, but we're not. I fully cop to the shallow desire to have the look and vibe of a cool, classic guitar, but not the price and fragility associated with the real thing. To me, it's a nice compromise and solution. I'm not trying to trick anyone into thinking that my '52 reissue is a real '52 Tele...but people who are in the know will look at it and go "cool, this guy likes classic stuff...good taste!" or whatever. They know where I'm coming from, without me having to spend $18,000 to prove it.
That's why this EVH (how's that for a segue?) thing for $25,000 is such a hoot. It's the epitome of a homemade, "from the artist's heart" type of creation, and we've calculated how much it would really cost to build (or how much Eddie probably has in it). Yet, there it is - bicycle reflectors and all - and selling for the price of a nice Honda sedan.
Funny stuff, guitars...I love 'em to death. But I sure don't always understand them.
:guitaristgif: :icon_tongue:
G
guitlouie
Guest
I come from a family of collectors, and am one myself. Not one of those "gotta keep it mint, in the package" collectors but a collector nontheless. Whether it be records, comic books, antique toy trains, or something really insane (my Aunt collected elephant statues, but only if their trunks were up) the one thing that is true about anything collectible is that it's only worth as much as someone is actually willing to pay for it. Fender Inc. has been in this game a long while, and obviously they think they can get enough morons to pay that much for this piece of nostalgia. More power to them I guess.
Fender eh? all this talk about Eddies monster reminds me of an article in Guitarist Australia magazine about a copy of Clapton's Blackie that they're selling at $30,000 a pop. I say 'copy' but this thing would fool Grissom and the CSI team. They even age the logo on the "original non-original" case. I reckon Leo's sittin' up there somewhere pissin' himself laughing.
