WARNING: Satin Finishes

[alterbridgefan]

Modern lacquers don't age like the old stuff did.

Reranch ages really well, it's almost exactly what Fender used in the 60's.

 

[bagman67]

Modern lacquers don't age like the old stuff did.

Reranch ages really well, it's almost exactly what Fender used in the 60's.

Reranch is - if the ad copy is telling the truth - supposed to be formulated per the old specs.  Which is, depending on your orientation, either a good thing or a bad one.

 

[Cagey]

Reranch has only been around since 2000, so the oldest finish you could have of theirs would be 13 years old. Unless we're talking about something like roadkill, I'm not sure if that's enough time to decide how well it ages.

 

[Cagey]

Incidentally, for those of you interested in Fender's finishing behavior over the years, this article is about as comprehensive as any I've ever read. It goes into enough detail that any would-be counterfeiter should be able to fool the most well-informed appraiser out there. Almost a how-to.

 

[sixstringsamurai]

Modern lacquers don't age like the old stuff did.

Reranch ages really well, it's almost exactly what Fender used in the 60's.

That's because they don't use the plasticizers that "other companies" now use to keep Nitro from aging the way the old lacquers did.

 

[Cagey]

That's because they don't use the plasticizers that "other companies" now use to keep Nitro from aging the way the old lacquers did.

You might want to read that article I linked. Lacquers aren't the same as they used to be because real "old school" nitro is all but illegal, so it's unlikely Reranch is selling it. On the plus side, today's lacquers are actually better than they used to be. You don't have to worry about yellowing and checking, which is undesirable.

 

[stubhead]

Fender's finishing behavior over the years, this article is about as comprehensive as any I've ever read. It goes into enough detail that any would-be counterfeiter should be able to fool the most well-informed appraiser out there. Almost a how-to.

My other internet vice is the steel guitar forum, and it trends old and an extremely high percentage of professionals. If you want to know about your old MSA pedal steel, the guy who built it will tell you, if you want to know what Paul Franklin or Robert Randolph did to get that tone on that song, they'll tell you themselves. To the point: there are a lot of guys who've been playing, selling, yakking about old guitars from the time that they were new guitars - and they insist they can absolutely tell a fake Fender or Gibson, just because... well because. But anybody who pages through the dealer's ads in Vintage Guitar magazine may well wonder how there manages to be large-scale trends and shifts in the guitars for sale, like how come Grannies all over America reached under Grandpa's bed last year and found Jaguars and Jazzmasters in every custom color imaginable? A few years back, the Grannies were mining the Les Paul Jr. and TV yellow dustbunny land for all it was worth. And Gibson keeps being all pissy and keeps insisting that there were 1,712 sunburst Les Paul Standards made in 1958, 1959 and 1960. And the fact that there are anywhere from 5,000 to 7,000 "in play" and several thousand more permanently locked up in vaults.... not their problem.

There has been a good deal of debate about the origins of Slash's "Appetite" '59 Les Paul - because at that time there were FOUR counterfeiters working in the Los Angeles area alone! Gibson copied it anyway. Regarding the Fender paint article, there are now several dozen books that go into excruciating detail about screw heads, pickup bobbins, everything you could possibly imagine. And at least four guys in Vintage Guitar are selling pre-aged parts, you don't even have to do it yourself anymore.

I had to let my VG subscription lapse, I just get disgusted by the jerks like George Gruhn, who has certainly made millions off fakes as well as the real. In his position as the Godfather - the expert - he writes one column three or four times a year, same column every time - I.E., old Gibsons and old Fenders and old Martins are the only guitars worth owning, playing collecting or "investing" in... gee I wonder what's in the warehouse, George? Ask the (rude!) question about why there are no comprehensive serial number registries for Gibson - when even the friggin' Ibanez fakes have one - you get his rap about how Gibson used different numbering systems, they weren't consistent, it's very complex for an ordinary person to grasp, even when five people have what is apparently the exact same 1957  Les Paul Goldtop, you're just going to have to hire an expert. But if you bought the original $100,000 1954 Stratocaster - are you really going to let an expert see it and, gulp, offer an opinion? To be a successful counterfeiter and/or pusherman, you just to have to have read one more "cookbook" than the guy you're duping.

And you can be real sure that the reason some guitar cords are "worth" $250, it's because some old beater P.O.S. guitar is "worth" $75,000, $120,000, $400,000... original solder joints that are broken are worth more than repaired ones, even if with the solder joint broke you can't tell if the rest of it works. But please, don't let me get started... :icon_biggrin:

 

[Day-mun]

You haven't even started yet?! :toothy12:

 

[Cagey]

As long as you're not on a rant, you might want to read this interview with Seth Lover. The horse's mouth throws a lotta monkey wrenches in the "vintatge" mythology gear train.

You're roughly the same age I am, so it's likely you already know the bulk of these details already. But, it's fun to hear it from someone unimpeachable. Worth bookmarking a link to, in case you wanna argue with someone.

 

[stubhead]

You wind the pickups with whatever wire the guys in purchasing bought, all the little "tricks" were just to make it faster to manufacture, and this:

SWD: How did you figure out the number of turns for the type of frequency--if you put too many turns on, when do you start loosing your high end?
Seth Lover: Well, I was just simply using # 42 plain enamel magnet wire. I put as many turns as I could satisfactorily fill the space available. And that’s where we stopped right there.

Who is this Lover guy anyway - some kind of Commie? :icon_scratch:

 

[Cagey]

Dunno. Mr. Lover died in '97, so I'm not sure how Mr. Duncan interviewed him in '98. Must be one of the last conversations he ever had and they just didn't publish it until later.

But, yeah. Commie, for sure. Mixing cream and black bobbins with no regard to their tonal qualities! What a buncha savages!

 

[Day-mun]

Savages indeed! The beginning of hum-bucking pick-ups was the end of tone! The nerve of those guys  :icon_scratch:... but I don't know what that has to do with satin nitro, but it was fun to say :toothy12:

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

Well, hopefully this thread won't be an unofficial suggestion box to put the nail in the coffin of their satin nitro neck finishes.  I love them!  Yes they're softer.  Yes they gloss up.  Yes they show wear.  They still feel better than a heavy gloss finish.

 

[vai777]

could probably put a coat of wax on it for a little more protection....

 

[mayfly]

Well, hopefully this thread won't be an unofficial suggestion box to put the nail in the coffin of their satin nitro neck finishes.  I love them!  Yes they're softer.  Yes they gloss up.  Yes they show wear.  They still feel better than a heavy gloss finish.

Ditto!  For all the 'faults' the satin nitro finish on necks is a wonderful thing.