Unlined fretless Gecko - are the gecko fret markers easy to use as a guide?

[Dolando]

Hello,

I'm looking into getting a gecko (small or medium) fretless 5 string. I want to get it unlined and I was wondering if the bigger fret markers on the gecko are a pain to use over standard round markers?

I would've thought you don't have an exact point of reference like you would with the round markers?

Any advice or guidance is much appreciated.

Thanks,

Adam

 

[line6man]

You don't have an exact point of reference on any bass. Even fully lined basses do not give you the proper intonation points.

If you have to rely on side dots to intonate, then you need to work on your technique. They are there as a reference point to what area of the neck you are playing on, not a mark of particular fretlines.

 

[Dolando]

Yea I understand that, and im ot after an exact point of reference.

Obviously they are placed where the fret would be and i just think that you might get an easier reference point with a normal round dot, than with the larger gecko markers.

I assume that when they put the markers where the fret would be it would be in the centre of the large markers?

 

[Dan025]

Hello,

I'm looking into getting a gecko (small or medium) fretless 5 string. I want to get it unlined and I was wondering if the bigger fret markers on the gecko are a pain to use over standard round markers?

I would of thought you don't have an exact point of reference like you would with the round markers?

Any advice or guidance is much appreciated.

Thanks,

Adam

i hate to be a grammar nazi but "would have" or "would've" not "would of"

it's ironic that grammar problems bother me because i'm a terrible speller and too lazy to use proper punctuation and capitalization and i don't proof read what i type. but if someone has bad sentence structure or mixed up word usage my eye starts to twitch and the vain in my temple starts pulsing....

 

[Dolando]

Apologies, but I wrote it at around 1am and I wasn't quite with it. I usually spend far too long editing posts but didn't on that occasion.

I know what you mean though, you dont have a single capital letter in your entire post.

Oh, and thanks for staying on topic.

 

[AutoBat]

I would assume the side dots would be in the same position regardless of whether it had frets or not.  I think I'd feel a bit off if they were moved.

I've never played a fretless, so I could be wrong.

 

[JimBeed]

I would assume the side dots would be in the same position regardless of whether it had frets or not.  I think I'd feel a bit off if they were moved.

I've never played a fretless, so I could be wrong.

Nope far as I know all(or most at least) have the side dots moved to the position of where their fret would be, 1st side dot to where the 1st fret would be on a  fretted etc.
most still do the 1?,3,5,7,9,12,15,17  etc however, so still not the whole lot of frets are marked out, so still alot to get used to. Hence why if I get a fretless i'm starting on a  moderately ok cheap one incase I can't get on with it then I haven't lost money really.

 

[stubhead]

Just for insty-grats here, I've been playing slide guitar as long as regular - 42 years. Fretless bass, 25 years off and on, the last decade full-on. And steel guitar the last 11 or 12 too. By far the fastest bestest way to get good at fretless is to sell all your fretted basses, and just... start taking the fretless one to jams and gigs. :help: You wouldn't BELIEVE the progress that'll push The audience is a great help, because they wince and grimace right along with you!

Oh, and teaching normal guitar for a few decades (me, that is).

I hope you can cut out at least a couple of hours a day to practice, yes Sundays, birthdays, sunny daze too. In a one-hour, twice daily routine, you'll want to set aside the last 5-to-10 minutes of each hour to play music that you like to play - without looking at your hands at all. Work in some 4th, 5th and octave slides - eventually. There is no substitute for this, no book you can read about it, no pixie dust, no protein shakes. I don't think there's much if any advantage trying to "cram" for it by doing intonation exercises for an hour a day, because - everything else is an intonation exercise too! :laughing3:

Another "eventual" is playing scales and figures (melody) against varying drone tones. And you don't want to always treat the tone as the root, you can "hold it" to be the 6th, 3rd, 4th it's own self. There are "methods" that advocate hold the drone to be a major 7th, flatted 9th, flat 6 - nah. By the time you really need Hungarian minors and the superlocrian mode, you'll know. Some people tell you to do these in all keys, but since the shapes all stay the same, I think there's better use of your time.

You do also want to look at your fingers, because intervals and music is laid out geographically on the neck. But you have to get your ear together, if you can't play in tune you got nothing. It'll ALWAYS sound like crap and you won't want to play. There's always, always constant listening and adjusting to stay in tune. When a classical violinist is blasting out 128th notes, they're listening, and adjusting - and the only way they can hear that fast to stay in tune is because they trained their ears and hand to stay in tune slowly, first.

Oh, and fret lines and dots and lizards and such? Whatever you like. :headbang:

 

[Dolando]

Thanks for the replies. I was aware they put the markers where the actual fret would be, i was mainly after people's experience when it comes to playing an unlined fretless gecko with the large markers.

On a side note according to a guy at warmoth, these type of markers are called "chicklets". (Photo attached of the fret markers in question)


StübHead - what can i say...massive thanks for the advise, has given me some great food for thought when the time comes to learn fretless with no lines. so cheers!

 

[line6man]

I would assume the side dots would be in the same position regardless of whether it had frets or not.  I think I'd feel a bit off if they were moved.

I've never played a fretless, so I could be wrong.

That's only the case for certain production instruments that are poorly made*. I believe that the unlined fretless Fender P basses from the 1970s era had their side dots placed in the traditional "between the frets" positions. There are probably others, as well, but generally, side dots are always on the "fretline" for unlined instruments.

*I say poorly made, because some companies just skip the fretting process for their lined fretlii, or the slotting process for their unlined fretlii, and treat them like fretted basses. This isn't good, because the nut does not get filed down properly, and the action ends up sky-high. Sometimes you end up having to shim the neck to get the action where it should be.

 

[Dolando]

Yea, I've been doing some digging and I think the dots you get on the gecko would be fine to follow. (See pic)

I have also had an idea, some fretless basses have smaller fret dots on all the frets in between, also attached a pic of show you the kind of thing I mean. So with the long gecko markers I could have smaller round markers between frets 3,5,7,9,12 etc.

Any thoughts?

 

[stubhead]

If you think it would help you, it may help you. But only insofar as the eyes, fingers, ears, and dots still make a really solid connection. There's a quite easy way to add dots to a neck using Milliput, a casting epoxy clay. "Easy" if you can measure accurately to 1/64" or so and drill shallow dot indentations right on line. But I really think it's a cosmetic issue - you could make just as good an argument that depending too much on line will hurt your intonation, as that the lines will help.

I turned this neck:


Into this neck with Milliput:

 

[line6man]

Yea, I've been doing some digging and I think the dots you get on the gecko would be fine to follow. (See pic)

I have also had an idea, some fretless basses have smaller fret dots on all the frets in between, also attached a pic of show you the kind of thing I mean. So with the long gecko markers I could have smaller round markers between frets 3,5,7,9,12 etc.

Any thoughts?

Personally, I would rather do a partial line. Those dots look confusing and bring too much attention to side of the fingerboard.

 

[Dolando]

If you think it would help you, it may help you. But only insofar as the eyes, fingers, ears, and dots still make a really solid connection. There's a quite easy way to add dots to a neck using Milliput, a casting epoxy clay. "Easy" if you can measure accurately to 1/64" or so and drill shallow dot indentations right on line. But I really think it's a cosmetic issue - you could make just as good an argument that depending too much on line will hurt your intonation, as that the lines will help.

That's a great idea, that I would have never thought of, ill definitely keep that in mind.

Yea, I've been doing some digging and I think the dots you get on the gecko would be fine to follow. (See pic)

I have also had an idea, some fretless basses have smaller fret dots on all the frets in between, also attached a pic of show you the kind of thing I mean. So with the long gecko markers I could have smaller round markers between frets 3,5,7,9,12 etc.

Any thoughts?

Personally, I would rather do a partial line. Those dots look confusing and bring too much attention to side of the fingerboard.

My plan is to have the gecko markers that I've shown earlier and an unlined fretless board, and try and learn to play it as is, and if I'm really struggling I think ill get some partial lines where I said I'd get small dots. I think that would be les confusing on the eye.

Thanks for the help.

 

[stubhead]

I'll go out on a limb and say the partial lines would be easy to do with the Milliput. You'd have to have your head in the game - sawing away on a multi-$$$ slab of wood - but you could tape two strips of sheet metal on the neck, one on the fretboard, one on the side - then use a cheap, relatively fine-bladed backsaw (.025"?) to cut a notch between them. Getting the notches even and correctly placed is 95% of the job. The Milliput comes as two little tubes of clay, you cut off equal-sized logs and mash them together real well for five minutes then it molds to... whatever. It shrinks slightly so you'd have to overfill the notches a bit, then sand it smooth. I don't know, I would trust myself to do it - be worth a trial run on ye old pine scrap first.

http://www.milliput.com/index.html

 

[line6man]

I'll go out on a limb and say the partial lines would be easy to do with the Milliput. You'd have to have your head in the game - sawing away on a multi-$$$ slab of wood - but you could tape two strips of sheet metal on the neck, one on the fretboard, one on the side - then use a cheap, relatively fine-bladed backsaw (.025"?) to cut a notch between them. Getting the notches even and correctly placed is 95% of the job. The Milliput comes as two little tubes of clay, you cut off equal-sized logs and mash them together real well for five minutes then it molds to... whatever. It shrinks slightly so you'd have to overfill the notches a bit, then sand it smooth. I don't know, I would trust myself to do it - be worth a trial run on ye old pine scrap first.

http://www.milliput.com/index.html

Why not just do it the usual way? Glue some contrasting veneer in the slots, and then, when the glue is dry, cut the excess down with a razor blade, then sand everything flush.

 

[stubhead]

You've got slot, wood, goo... I've got slot, goo. There's no fitting involved, the filler is the line. It comes in five colors, and just saves a step. I've done one other and another to go and it's like foolproof. You have to get the holes exactly right, but that's easy enough. Start with a needle, then the awl, then the little hole then the big hole.

 

[Dolando]

They both do sound like possible routes. I'm not sure I'd be confident drill into such a nice piece of wood. I know a guy who builds his own guitars and basses and reckon he'd do me a good price in fitting somartial lines with a maple or something slightly darker. But I definitely think that ill go the partial line rout with the gecko inlays. I think the smaller dots might start to get a little confusing....

 

[Day-mun]

-Been lurking on this thread for a while...

-Gotta say (to whoever is listening), no-lines/odd #'d positions side-dotted is the way to go. The side dots are just for a loose reference; they getcha close, but the ear does the rest. I have one of each (lined and side-dots-only), and I am less distracted and more "on"/less pitchy with the no-lines. -Built the lined one to make the transition, but since getting my budget slab together, I don't even play the lined one any more. -Dunno why it works like that for me. My son is the opposite; loves the lined, -needs those lines, or he gets all lost.

 

[tubby.twins]

Sorry, I'm late to this party.  Anyway, of all the fretless Gecko necks I own, only one is unlined.  I have found the fret markers (the "chiclets") relatively easy to use, up until around the 15th fret.  Any higher, and I find that I rely almost entirely on my ears.