Two new builds (Valco and tele)

[Don]

Hello everybody, i'm back from a long absence on this forum, but it's nice to be back.
So after my very fist Cyclocaster build that you can take a look at here http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=18800.0, i spent some time tweeking with the intonation, neck angle, pickup height and so forth to make it play at her best, and boy, i got to say i love this guitar, right looks, right weight, everything is balanced and smooth, versatile enough to play almost everything on it but at the same time very characteristic and unique, i've never heard anything that sound like a P90 in the middle of an ash guitar.
But i'm getting OT now, what i wanted to talk to talk about in this post are my new two projects: a cheaper of the cheapest chinese tele and a valco "map" style guitar.
They are both non-Warmoth builds, so i'm sorry if i'm not allowed to talk about here, feel free to delete the post if it reveals itself to be unconvenient.
Anyways, the Tele is gonna be a very Standard vintage tele, solid maple neck and fingerboard, alder body with quilted maple top, two tone sunburst color, two single coils with ashtray bridge, strings trough body style, vintage tuning keys ecc that i'm going to collect at the cheapest  price that i can find (i have allready found everything i need for about 180 € taxes and shipping included.)
I've found all the electronics + pickup + bridge on ebay in a bundle for 25 $, and i will buy the body and the neck and neck hardware on eyguitars.com. Course since it is a cheaper of the cheapest project i can't look for high quality. I expect to upgrade the upragadable later with quality parts, maybe with a Tv jones classic in the neck, if the guitar proves itself not to be complete garbage.

 

[Don]

The Valco map model is way more problematic.
For the ones who don't know what Valco guitars are, they were cheap guitars sold by mail by the Valco company, that produced the Airline, Dobro, National, Valco, and even Harmony, if i'm not mistaken, brands.
Their singularity was in the fact that they were build with fiberglass bodies, so they sounded particular.
The production ceased in the 60s, and now they are sold for as high as 3000 dollars.
Only recently http://www.guitarkitsusa.com started to do cheap res o glas bodies again.
The problem is, they don't seem to sell internationally. I've checked their ebay store, on which they say they sell their bodies internationally, but i couldn't find any body at all! (pun intended :icon_biggrin
Could anyone please help me out on this one?

 

[Patrick from Davis]

Not too long ago, Trevor (Mayfly) posted these guys for a source for old res o glas style bodies.  They are designed for a Tele neck heel (there are some others as well) and then you make your own layout.  Very cool concept.  At some point I will put one together, but it is always nice to hear about other projects, especially the more off the beaten path ones.
Patrick

 

[Don]

Not too long ago, Trevor (Mayfly) posted these guys for a source for old res o glas style bodies.  They are designed for a Tele neck heel (there are some others as well) and then you make your own layout.  Very cool concept.  At some point I will put one together, but it is always nice to hear about other projects, especially the more off the beaten path ones.
Patrick

Yeah, i know about them, i linked them in the post above this one, the point is i can't seem to find an international dealer for those bodies. Moreover i have no idea where to find valco's classic necks, i guess those are called Gumby necks?
Look at Jack White's red Jb Hutto model. The neck on that one is the one i want.

 

[Patrick from Davis]

I believe those necks are from old valco guitars.  They have three bolts and are a V shape.  Odd.  They do make international orders, but you have to contacts them.  This page implies that, from what I read.
Patrick

 

[Cagey]

I'm curious... why would you want to reproduce some of the worst guitars ever built? They're difficult to play, sound awful, look like shit... are you some kind of masochist? If money is an issue, for a lot less you could get some pretty damn nice Korean instruments, many of which are legitimate competition for Gibson (see here). So, what gives?

 

[Don]

I'm curious... why would you want to reproduce some of the worst guitars ever built? They're difficult to play, sound awful, look like shite... are you some kind of masochist? If money is an issue, for a lot less you could get some pretty damn nice Korean instruments, many of which are legitimate competition for Gibson (see here). So, what gives?

Well, you know... Aesthetics are completely relative, so the fact that you don't like their design is not really a point against building one, i personally like some of their design.
Even the sound point is relative, allthought i have to add that if some international guitarists and total gear nuts like Jack White and Dan Auerbach used them for many years as their main instruments, i doubt they will sound that bad. Maybe they won't sound as a 59 Gibson but again, they are different guitar.
The real point is this: i would like to be a luthier/guitar designer one day, so when i see an originial or different concept, i'm naturally attracted to it, because it will Grant me better knowledge than looking all the time at the same Tele/Strat/LP circuit.

 

[Don]

Ok i'm almost done with the woodwork, in the end i decided to go for a thinline.
Here it is after i applied the woodfiller.
I carved the f-hole by hand, i'm pretty proud of it!
I ended up spending less than 200 €!
Later i'll post the specs and the sources if someone is interested
:rock-on:

 

[alterbridgefan]

I've admired your work, can't wait to see the Valco!

 

[Don]

I've admired your work, can't wait to see the Valco!

Thank you however i'm afraid we'll have to wait for a long time for that one, cause you know... No cash, one annoyed girlfriend and one even more annoyed family that won't really accept any excuse for another 500+ $ to build another one of "those things" while having other two allready on the list.

 

[Don]

In these days i sanded the body, shot the primer and then the red lacquer. The first hands were a disaster.
Terrible bubbling and orange peel

 

[Don]

Sanded it back to wood (total PITA, i had to do it by hand), and shoot with much more thinner in the mix and a better gun.
Way better result. Not perfect, but good.
I wonder now if i should leave it as it is or sand it and shoot a clear coat of matt lacquer i have here.

 

[Don]

Also the neck came in the mail yesterday. It's not top notch quality, it's a bit rough on the details, but hey, for 40 € shipped it's freaking amazing!

 

[Don]

From the back it almost looks kinda birdeyeish (that word does not exist, i know  :laughing7
Could be?
Also my cat digs it!  :icon_biggrin:

 

[Cagey]

First effort was clearly far too thick. You didn't need to sand it back to the wood, though. Could've just shot it with pure acetone (lacquer thinner) and basically wiped it off.

Which brings us to the next point - lacquer is funny stuff. Too much thinner and you're shooting stripper. Not enough, and you're shooting mud. Usually somewhere between 40% and 60% thinner is about right, and depending on the temperature/humidity, retarder can be your friend.

You might want to read through this treatment on lacquer finishes for guitars. Follow it, and you'll have good results. You don't necessarily have to use the exact brand materials they recommend, but you do need to use those types of materials.

Finally, yes, you need to shoot a number of coats of clear on there. Otherwise, that finish is coming off surprisingly fast. The clear coats are arguably the most important of all.

 

[Don]

First effort was clearly far too thick. You didn't need to sand it back to the wood, though. Could've just shot it with pure acetone (lacquer thinner) and basically wiped it off.

Which brings us to the next point - lacquer is funny stuff. Too much thinner and you're shooting stripper. Not enough, and you're shooting mud. Usually somewhere between 40% and 60% thinner is about right, and depending on the temperature/humidity, retarder can be your friend.

You might want to read through this treatment on lacquer finishes for guitars. Follow it, and you'll have good results. You don't necessarily have to use the exact brand materials they recommend, but you do need to use those types of materials.

Finally, yes, you need to shoot a number of coats of clear on there. Otherwise, that finish is coming off surprisingly fast. The clear coats are arguably the most important of all.

Thank you for the info Cagey, i'll check it right now  :icon_thumright:
However i had to strip it by hand because i hoped until the very last blasfemy that those little bubbles were gone and than pop! Another one pops up as you cleared the last one.

 

[Don]

As i'm trying to draw and understand guitar electronic diagrams, i draw this diagram.
Respecting Seymour Duncan's color coding and schemes, i think this should work, and that means the push/pull pot should split one of the humbucker's coils when pulled up. I had to convert the wiring from a classic american 3 way switch (4 pins to the right, 4 to the left) to a so called "import" switch (all pins in a straight line).
Is it ok? I suppose it's not, for some reason.

 

[Don]

Ok i received the last packet of parts a couple days ago so i can now proceed to assemble it after a few touch ups.
I have a problem though. I want to wire it so that when the neck humbucker is split the middle position with the bridge single coil is RWRP. I know that on the humbuckers the magnet is polarized on the sides, and on the cheap single coil as mine, it's polarized on the top and on the bottom of the pickup.
So how do i get to know which humbucker coil is reverse polarity to the bridge single coil? In my case the humbucker is south on the screw coil side and north on the other coil. The single coil bridge is north on the top (the part of the pickup which is visible on an assembled tele) and south on the bottom.
Once i undestood which coil is reverse polarity to the bridge pickup, do i have to wire it inverting the positive and the negative wire of one of them in order to make them reverse wind?
Thanks  :icon_thumright:

 

[Patrick from Davis]

TroubledTreble (Ken) has some posts on how pickups are wired.  You might search though what he has posted on some key words relating to it.
Patrick

 

[Don]

TroubledTreble (Ken) has some posts on how pickups are wired.  You might search though what he has posted on some key words relating to it.
Patrick

I gave a look at Ken's posts but i couldn't find an aswer to my problem. How does the polarity for single coils get defined?
I know that with humbuckers the coil that attracts the compass's needle to north is actually a negative coil, and viceversa.
But in a single coil the coil lies on the whole magnet. Does the side of the magnet facing the strings count as polarity for the whole pickup?