True temperment guitar necks

[hopkinWFG]

Howdy guys and all diyers.... just ever wonder has anybody got into ordering necks from true temperment frets?

They offer necks thats available in already installed TT frets... but just wonder how nice are those necks and fretboards?

I ever think of ordering a TT neck and have it assembled onto a warmoth body...

 

[musicispeace]

I'm seriously considering trying one but changed work in the last few months and not for a higher salary so it won't be this year that I would get to it. I'd like to try them and have one guitar with it. From what I have researched it appears users are more common in Europe and some very high end shredder guitars are using the fret system. I was planning to email some boutique guitar people in Europe to see if anyone would/could respond with any firsthand experience at least seeing in person the TT necks. They are not cheap but still a lot less investment than the custom made guitars with the frets. Supposedly the frets are a bear to level and crown due to the non-traditional shapes but I'd still like to check it out.

 

[Logrinn]

I tried one of IA Eklundh's guitars at the Freak Guitar Camp. The feeling playing with the TT-frets wasn't that different from playing a neck with regular frets but the intonation didn't strike me as much better.
I'd use that money getting a new guitar or amp instead.

 

[Cagey]

My understanding is they use Warmoth necks as a base, then laser-cut them for the odd-shaped frets themselves, which are actually cast parts as opposed to bent fretwire. I don't think you have to worry about leveling/dressing/polishing - I think that's part of the installation.

Is it worth it? I can't say. It depends how sensitive to dissonance you are, and I'm not one of those guys who has to adjust tuning 4 times during the course of a song, then spend 10 minutes with a strobotuner between songs getting it just right :laughing7:

 

[amigarobbo]

I was going to, till I saw how much they costs.

I've reinforced my decision by not being able to see how they could possibly work, maybe in a couple of keys, the whole point of equal temperment is a guitar is so it's only slightly out tune in all keys.

:icon_scratch:

 

[Cagey]

Everybody has different needs and desires. Look at the proliferation of chorus/flanger/rotator/vibrato/doubler pedals. They're designed specifically to create a signal that's slightly out of phase/time/tune to make the foundational tone "fatter" or "richer" or [insert adjective here]. So, a lotta guys will spend big bucks going out of tune, others will throw money at getting in tune. Who's to say which is better? I'll use a favorite defense: Jimi Hendrix didn't need True-Temper necks! Of course, it often sounded like he had little use for tuners, either  :laughing7:

 

[amigarobbo]

Fortunately I've never been one of those lucky people who can hear +/-2% ish errors of equal temperament,  :headbang5

 

[hopkinWFG]

Haha.... well after watching mattias eklundh new caparison video with his TT apple horn... ops sorry the guitar is not new either its last year and now it has discontinued... well i strike major bar chord all the way down and seriously i didnt hear any misnotes along the notes on the fretboard... maybe am also not sensitive enough to hear...

Mmmm is a gimmick ? But the crooked frets looks cool certainly hahah i googled and bump into reverb.com which has platform on selling these necks... not a wise guy to buy especially a normal flatsawn maple with rosewood or pau ferro with 22 TT frets = some 800usd

I know caparison has offered TT.. so is strandberg singularity model

But the TT neck i reckoned is made from sweden... i last seen the manufactuering country on these TT neck is from czech republic maybe for cost effectiveness?
I guess certainly not necks from warmoth thou...

https://reverb.com/item/3181082-true-temperament-retrofit-neck-for-telecaster-with-7-25-radius-and-rosewood-fingerboard

 

[DangerousR6]

My understanding is they use Warmoth necks as a base, then laser-cut them for the odd-shaped frets themselves, which are actually cast parts as opposed to bent fretwire. I don't think you have to worry about leveling/dressing/polishing - I think that's part of the installation.

Is it worth it? I can't say. It depends how sensitive to dissonance you are, and I'm not one of those guys who has to adjust tuning 4 times during the course of a song, then spend 10 minutes with a strobotuner between songs getting it just right :laughing7:

The average person listening isn't so acute to tuning either, and straight frets have been around since the first fretted instrument. So I don't see all the fuss... :doh:

 

[Cagey]

I blame modern tuning aids. They're so sensitive and accurate that they can measure inaccuracies that are inaudible to humans. The problem is once you know something is wrong, you naturally want to try and fix/adjust/mitigate it. But, as you say, guitars have existed essentially in their current form since forever, so why are these minuscule anomalies suddenly in need of attention? If there wasn't a problem before, why is there one now? Only because our sensors are telling us there is one. I say if you couldn't hear it before, then you can't hear it now, so shut up an' play yer guitar  :laughing7:

 

[hopkinWFG]

I blame modern tuning aids. They're so sensitive and accurate that they can measure inaccuracies that are inaudible to humans. The problem is once you know something is wrong, you naturally want to try and fix/adjust/mitigate it. But, as you say, guitars have existed essentially in their current form since forever, so why are these minuscule anomalies suddenly in need of attention? If there wasn't a problem before, why is there one now? Only because our sensors are telling us there is one. I say if you couldn't hear it before, then you can't hear it now, so shut up an' play yer guitar  :laughing7:

:laughing11:

 

[JPilot]

A properly compensated nut (similar in design to the Earvana nut, or the adjustable nut by Microfrets) combined with properly spaced linear frets, properly crowned frets, and compensated saddles, will achieve the same results as the True Temperament system, but only for equal temperament. In other words, if one were to "de-squiggle" the True Temperament frets (on an equal tempered guitar) while keeping the distance between each fret the same for each string, you'd end up with a squiggled nut, like the Earvana nut. You'd also, of course, end up with a squiggled bridge saddle array (compensated bridge saddles). However, in order to play in other temperaments, a curved fret system is required.

Just to clarify -

A guitar with a properly compensated nut and properly adjusted bridge saddles will have the IDENTICAL intonation as a guitar with the equal tempered True Temperament system. As an engineer, I'm always frustrated by overly complicated and expensive solutions to a problem that has already been solved with a simple and better solution.

For what it's worth, I've added a compensated nut to all of my guitars. Chords ring out much more clearly. The difference is quite dramatic if you have good ears.

 

[swarfrat]

I'll also add, that if chorus/flanger do not drive you absolutely nuts, you are probably not a candidate for it.  I dislike them nowadays, not so much for the detuning, but because I've grown to dislike subtle delays that rob a guitar of attack and punch.

 

[amigarobbo]

That said, I'd still want to try one.

And they look kwel.

 

[AirCap]

I blame modern tuning aids.

The only problem with that statement is that true temperament tuning and fretting have been around longer than modern tuning aids. When I was getting started in luthiery back in the 70's I used to see a local classical player with true tempered frets. They weren't squiggly, they were frets cut into little pieces and laboriously inlaid into the fingerboard. You couldn't bend the strings, but he wasn't doing that anyway. The only tuners back then were oscilloscopes, i.e.: Peterson Strobotuners.... Not exactly portable even for a pianist.

 

[Cagey]

I know ultra-serious players like classical guitarists have been aware of temperament issues for quite some time, but what I'm referring to is the current fascination with minor inaccuracies that most players wouldn't even be aware of if it weren't for the proliferation of super-inexpensive and highly accurate tuners. Back in the '70s when I first started watching and playing in bands, tuning consisted of somebody agreeing on what was an "A", then everybody self-tuned from there. 6th string 5th fret A = 5th string, 5th string 5th fret D = 4th string, etc. "Temperament", for those who knew what the word meant, usually referred to the singer. "Yeah, he's a temperamental f*ck, but he knows all the lyrics..."

Speaking of Strobotuners and temperamental, I played with a guy for a while back then who carried his Strobe with him everywhere. Couldn't play worth a tinker's damn, but he was always in tune. Spent most of his time doing it, too, when he wasn't bitching about everybody else being out of tune or pouting in a corner somewhere over some imaginary slight.

 

[swarfrat]

Just in case you need to be anti-calibrated a bit (the original is the worst, but I can't find it on youtube)
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnoxKXkPqEE&pbjreload=10[/youtube]

 

[Logrinn]

:toothy12: :toothy12: :toothy12:

 

[Cagey]

Hehe! Yeah, good ol' Bobby. Always maliciously dissonant  :laughing7:

 

[swarfrat]

He certainly believes what he's saying.