Threaded inserts - neck/body attachment

[SkuttleFunk]

I utilize threaded inserts in all of my bass builds, as I find that the added clamping pressure they allow for will significantly reduce (usually eliminate!) the traditional 34" scale dead spots on the D and G strings.

In this image I label the inserts I utilize as 'mystery' because I purchase them from Fastenal (a fastener reseller) who will not disclose their supplier name and part number.

Installation can be tricky, and requires the availability of a drill press (or in my case, a ShopSmith) due to the need to have the insert centerlines exactly perpendicular to the neck mounting face. The added alignment accuracy is also key ... but most of all, it's the insertion portion of the install that requires the press as you'll see

In this image I am aligning the pre-drilled mounting holes in a Warmoth Deluxe 5 neck by utilizing a like size drill bit. I want to make sure that the drill bit slides in/out of the hole without any chafing on the sides of the hole. Notice that the neck is firmly clamped in place - but not overly firm, as you don't want to create flat spots on the frets

Once the drill head is aligned, I switch out to a Forstner bit of the recommended hole size and drill to a depth that is about 3/32" deeper than the insert is long. Be sure to measure first - you don't want to drill thru the top side of your fretboard ... and you surely don't want to drill into a steel stiffening bar!

Without moving the aligned neck, I swap out the bit for a slotted drive. I then add a little bar soap to the threads of the insert and set the insert onto the drive and bring the drill head down against the neck until it will hold the insert unattended. I then add pressure to the insert while twisting the drill head by hand. The idea is to thread the insert into the newly drilled hole until it is just recessed below the neck mounting face.

Repeat for the remaining three mounting holes and you're done!

Not only does this give you superior clamping strength for mounting the neck, but it also makes for easy disassembly/reassembly for when you need to fly with your bass and the airline refuses to let you carry it on due to size restrictions for carry on baggage. So long as you are reasonably careful with installing the mounting screws, there are no more stripped screw holes to worry about!

all the best,

R

p.s. Here's the bass that this neck was installed on (an Ash Warmoth Deluxe 5 '51P body in semi-transparent Butterscotch)

 

[CD]

I've never thought of that. Cool.

Awesome bass too. :headbang:

 

[givememytoys]

is that the brimerton ferry i see

 

[Stuck in the Sixties]

Great thread and a great looking bass. Thanks for the info.

 

[bootlegger]

You can buy the brass wood inserts at Lowes hard ware store for under $ 2.00 for a pack of two. A pack of 6 screws will cost about $ 1.75 for the bag.  You will find them in the speciality hard ware drawers.  I was about to start inserting them on my bolt on guitars for that I got an 8-32 size. They can also be purchased from Rockler. com. under the hardware tab.

Bootlegger.

 

[SkuttleFunk]

You can buy the brass wood inserts at Lowes hard ware store for under $ 2.00 for a pack of two. A pack of 6 screws will cost about $ 1.75 for the bag.  You will find them in the speciality hard ware drawers.  I was about to start inserting them on my bolt on guitars for that I got an 8-32 size. They can also be purchased from Rockler. com. under the hardware tab.

Bootlegger.

DO NOT USE BRASS INSERTS FOR GUITAR OR BASS NECKS!!!!!

I cannot emphasise this enough. The first time you snap a soft brass insert in your hard Maple neck you will completely understand why I am soooooo emphatic about this.

Use only high quality hardened steel or stainless steel inserts ... NOT BRASS


I will agree that brass inserts are good for cavity control plate covers and bridge mounting. But they are NOT strong enough to utilize on NECK JOINTS!

all the best,

R

 

[simple]

You can buy the brass wood inserts at Lowes hard ware store for under $ 2.00 for a pack of two. A pack of 6 screws will cost about $ 1.75 for the bag.  You will find them in the speciality hard ware drawers.  I was about to start inserting them on my bolt on guitars for that I got an 8-32 size. They can also be purchased from Rockler. com. under the hardware tab.

Bootlegger.

DO NOT USE BRASS INSERTS FOR GUITAR OR BASS NECKS!!!!!

I cannot emphasise this enough. The first time you snap a soft brass insert in your hard Maple neck you will completely understand why I am soooooo emphatic about this.

Use only high quality hardened steel or stainless steel inserts ... NOT BRASS


I will agree that brass inserts are good for cavity control plate covers and bridge mounting. But they are NOT strong enough to utilize on NECK JOINTS!

all the best,

R

Awesome. Thanks for all the information that you post SkuttleFunk.  :icon_thumright:

 

[bootlegger]

The information on as where to get brass inserts was because there was a brass insert your the picture and it was not noted"for comparision purpose only". Your point is duly noted although you can get the steel inserts from rockler.com.

Bootlegger.

 

[Greg P]

That is a really good idea.  Thanks for the tip. 

 

[SkuttleFunk]

The information on as where to get brass inserts was because there was a brass insert your the picture and it was not noted"for comparision purpose only". Your point is duly noted although you can get the steel inserts from rockler.com.

Bootlegger.

Hi Bootlegger -

Sorry if you saw my post as personal towards you - I definitely didn't intend it that way ... and in re-reading my post I see how it could easily by looked at that way.

I'll give Rockler another look. Last time I visited, all they could get me was the inserts shown on the left side. If you're wanting to do a 4-string or guitar neck, the reduced size of the middle inserts will definitely keep you a much safer distance from the edge of the neck, reducing the potential for cracking your neck if you flub on your installation technique.

all the best,

R

 

[bootlegger]

I thank you for the apoligy and say that it takes alot to do that and you have my respect for such. I like you would like to help others with tips and tricks that I find make the hobby much more enjoyable and less frustrating. I have seen the 8-32 and the 10 32 size inserts and I concur with you on the size 10-32 for bass necks due to the with of the neck versus the with of a guitar neck which is best suited for guitars. There is a rockler store about a 20 miniute drive from me in So.Cal. when I get off my dead butt I will take a drive and if they have the 10-32 I'll notify you and if you want I'll pick some up for you.

Bootlegger.

 

[terryblulite]

Great article.I like the idea of this with no back plate. I'll see if I can get this out without seeming out of line.too! Anyone who tries this might also consider the possibility you might have to replace a cap screw  or insert someday.I'm goin'with the flow and say hardened steel or stainless inserts.Our Fastenal store in Emporia,Kansas has all the hardware I'm used to using at work.(retired industrial mechanic).Too small of a screw size might shatter if the hard type,or "work harden",get brittle,and snap. The "Allen head " or "button head" American Standard capscrews are about grade 8(160,000 lb steel).They will strip out a brass/soft steel insert.Hard for the homeowner to drill out a broken screw,too.Metric cap screws are softer steel,as are the lower grades of standard bolts and screws.I'd go with a fine thread in something like this-I like the 10/32 you used here.It's a lot easier to replace the softer stripped or broken screws than it is a hard  insert and a higher grade screw used together.Seems inserts are a "Do it right the first time and leave it alone" kinda thing.But I've worked with them enough that I'm not afraid to use  the harder grade of screws. I'm more used to using these in machinery than wood.So pardon if I seem a bit overboard about it.Just some things to consider,and sayin' forewarned is forearmed! Great lookin' bass,too!!!!  Thanks much for the work of posting all the photos and info.

 

[terryblulite]

Gotta ask-  Is the 10/24 EZ-Loc what you used on this bass? What screws did you find in 10/24? Is the zinc insert adequate in your opinion?One of the inserts in the photos looks like the zinc model is why I ask. There are several threads made in this size.Fastenal site lists quite few-10/24,10/28,10/32.Some of the EZ-Loc inserts for hardwood on the EZ-Loc website look good,but are made of zinc.I'm used to using the hardened EZ-Loc for metal,so I'm trying to get all the info I can before I start boring holes! Thanks again,Terry  also,I've mentioned maybe wrong sizes an metals somewhere in my posts here,too much coffee? :help:

 

[SkuttleFunk]

I did not go with the Ez-Loc due to the larger barrel size. I found a product at Fastenal that is almost identical to the middle insert.

Here's what I have for reference information (on the package label):

10176-06616
10-24x12mm IB INS
Ctrl# erwa22804
Vendor #: 130441

If anyone is able to decypher this code to reveal the part manufacturer/supplier, I would be very interested to know. It's more of a curiosity for me, as I am very pleased with the service and pricing I received from Fastenal

I did use the Ez-loc product on one neck, but found that the shallow thread pitch caused an unacceptable amount of surface 'chipping' - hidden, of course, when you mount the neck but concerning in that it introduced the chip in the first place. The inserts I am using, when installed correctly, do not induce this 'chipping' - even on pre-finished necks.

all the best,

R

 

[terryblulite]

Got it! 10/24 it is then..  I'll head over to Fastenal and see if the shipping box is on the shelf,too. ccasion14:Terry

 

[terryblulite]

SkuttleFunk -The "mystery part" # 10176 -06616 means that 10176 is the store and possibly region.The 101 number at the store here ends in three different digits.The 06616 is the actual Fastenal stock #.The gal said she would get me the inserts,but the stock number wasn't in their system at all,and she may have to contact that store to get the lowdown on this.Your store up there may be where mine come from! She also gave me one helluva deal on a couple of those blue metal latch top boxes with all the dividers inside for specialty hardware stuff.Same thing my old maint. department usedfor hardware.Good place-I've always liked goin' there.Terry

 

[terryblulite]

For anybody that uses these inserts for amps,speaker cabinets,or furniture-I just found out from Parts Express tech support that  the "Hurricane Nuts tm" that they carry are zinc.

 

[bootlegger]

I picked up some 8-32 zinc inserts from Rockler (pt# 33209, 8 pieces to a bag) for $ 2.89 per bag. 

Scuttle Funk:

They do not have 10-24 inserts at the Rockler I went to. There is a bolt house not far away from me they are open 1/2 day on saturdays. When I get a chance I will check and see if they have them there. Could possibly be another sorce for you.

Bootlegger.

 

[RobSm]

Thanks for the photos & instruction.

I'm considering trying this on a guitar.

Would using the existing holes - as you did - on a guitar result in weakness near the edge of the neck heel?

I mean would drilling out the existing holes be too risky because the drilled out holes would be too close to the edge?

Also what sized Machine screws & inserts would be suitable for a guitar as opposed to a base?

Thanks ...

 

[SkuttleFunk]

how much clearance do you have between the mounting hole centerline and the edge of the neck?

all the best,

rR