AprioriMark
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Jay makes some good points.
-Mark
-Mark
This is a Warmoth?!?
- Thread starter Disco Scottie
- Start date
Very well stated Jay. I agree with everything you said.
No one is forced to use the service. But if you do, it opens up the world (for good and occasionally ill).
I've been looking for a replacement 22.5" neck for a Duo-Sonic and recently found a guy that makes and sells them through ebay. I got a Warmoth VW body after they went out of production through ebay. I was recently looking for a bridge with a particular spec and the only one I could find was in China selling through ebay for $7 shipped (I really don't understand how that price is possible). I figured I might be out the $7, but took the chance and got exactly what I wanted.
I've also sold many things for a fair price when I needed the money. I've had a couple irritating experiences also, but no more than any other type of transaction. Do your homework on the item, ask questions, and stay away if anything doesn't add up.
No one is forced to use the service. But if you do, it opens up the world (for good and occasionally ill).
I've been looking for a replacement 22.5" neck for a Duo-Sonic and recently found a guy that makes and sells them through ebay. I got a Warmoth VW body after they went out of production through ebay. I was recently looking for a bridge with a particular spec and the only one I could find was in China selling through ebay for $7 shipped (I really don't understand how that price is possible). I figured I might be out the $7, but took the chance and got exactly what I wanted.
I've also sold many things for a fair price when I needed the money. I've had a couple irritating experiences also, but no more than any other type of transaction. Do your homework on the item, ask questions, and stay away if anything doesn't add up.
The point you don't seem to get is you have to protect yourself anywhere you make a purchase. You may not be as conscious because these methods are already ingrained because of your extensive brick and mortar purchases. When you shop don't you always look for the best value? Don't you buy from trusted stores? Are you more learn of the mom and pop or smaller retailers? You may be willing to give it a shot but I bet its a let's see attitude. EBay isn't that much different than any other online retailer.
Jusatele
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when I walk into a store, built on a street, and do business with a business with a license, and insurance and all that, I do not have to protect myself, I have easily enforced laws that ensure If I feel I am being ripped off I can get my money back
On ebay, I have to go into a system where they do investigations, and make me report back and do this and that, and where you down till you miss one deadline and they close the investigation
took me one time to figure that out, lost a 100 dollars, if that was a business I would never have lost that
I know others who have been in that loop and agree it is designed to wear you out
NO, I do not have to protect myself to walk into Sears, or the Local shop down the road
but, I do need to listen to a set of rules and disclaimers everyone states to deal on Ebay
check the guys rep, see how new he is, never do this or that
I say, when you have to watch your wallet, and you have to do business by rules to protect yourself from being ripped off
you are dealing in a den of thieves
if not, no one would be worried about checking out this or that. If it was up and up there would be no disclaimers
face it, until you can tell me I mail cash to the seller with no regrets, it is a den of thieves, I can walk into Best Buy, hand them cash and they hand me a receipt, I walk out and the item does break I can walk back in and it is replaced or they deal with the LAW, No one can say that about Ebay. If I get a leather sole when I bought a pair of Italian shoes on Ebay, I then have to go through a long process to retrieve my money and probably will never get it back.
As I said, EBAY, home of the scammer. when ebay becomes a place where I get to handle the merchandise before handing out money and I am assured it is what I wanted, then it can be trusted, but as long as everyone defending it still will not buy anything until he is sure the guy is not a flake or that the item is what is offered, then I will stop saying such.
I challenge any one who is defending ebay, to buy the item I choose to prove it is not a home of scammers
On ebay, I have to go into a system where they do investigations, and make me report back and do this and that, and where you down till you miss one deadline and they close the investigation
took me one time to figure that out, lost a 100 dollars, if that was a business I would never have lost that
I know others who have been in that loop and agree it is designed to wear you out
NO, I do not have to protect myself to walk into Sears, or the Local shop down the road
but, I do need to listen to a set of rules and disclaimers everyone states to deal on Ebay
check the guys rep, see how new he is, never do this or that
I say, when you have to watch your wallet, and you have to do business by rules to protect yourself from being ripped off
you are dealing in a den of thieves
if not, no one would be worried about checking out this or that. If it was up and up there would be no disclaimers
face it, until you can tell me I mail cash to the seller with no regrets, it is a den of thieves, I can walk into Best Buy, hand them cash and they hand me a receipt, I walk out and the item does break I can walk back in and it is replaced or they deal with the LAW, No one can say that about Ebay. If I get a leather sole when I bought a pair of Italian shoes on Ebay, I then have to go through a long process to retrieve my money and probably will never get it back.
As I said, EBAY, home of the scammer. when ebay becomes a place where I get to handle the merchandise before handing out money and I am assured it is what I wanted, then it can be trusted, but as long as everyone defending it still will not buy anything until he is sure the guy is not a flake or that the item is what is offered, then I will stop saying such.
I challenge any one who is defending ebay, to buy the item I choose to prove it is not a home of scammers
Cagey
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I have to agree that there are a LOT of scammers on eBay. But, that's true of nearly all transactions. People don't generally enter into even trades. Both sides have to feel as though they're getting more back in return for what they give, or they don't do it. I don't mean to present that as an absolute, just a generality. So, you're always going to see wide disparities in quality or performance vs. price. Oddly enough, that's part of the draw of the thing. Everybody wants something for nothing, and while you don't get that on eBay, you seem to get closer. But, it provides for great risk of dissatisfaction. If you're careful, you can do ok. But, really, it's just a big "here today, gone tomorrow" garage sale. Treat it as such and you're not likely to get hurt.
jay4321
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I hate making these long posts but I'm sick today, and there's just so much to respond to.
Justatele, your challenge to have someone buy whatever you choose to see if they get scammed makes it painfully clear where the first problem lies. eBay isn't a place where you just buy whatever, from whoever, at any price you happen to find it at. Those who grasp that are far more likely to have a better experience over time. If a person handles their money poorly, feels compelled to outbid everyone else for garbage and questionable items, can't be bothered to vet the seller's feedback, or doesn't have the good common sense to steer clear of abnormally high-risk items, then eBay just won't go that well for them.
And yes, I have tons of what you call "rules and disclaimers" to help protect myself from being scammed or ripped off, some apply to eBay while others apply elsewhere. Most people do. Besides a few simple settings changes like "US Only" on ebay, some of those rules encompass good common-sense concepts, such as:
1) "If it's too good to be true, it probably is"
2) Be cautious who you do business with
3) Guard your personal financial information
4) Don't answer random offers by mail or email
5) Read and understand all agreements and contracts before signing them
6) Make sure contractors/repairmen are licensed/insured
7) Hang on to receipts & warranty paperwork
8) Secure your computer, and double-check for the http"s" and the website address you're actually on before paying for anything
...and so on. If a given person put enough time into it and got specific enough, there's probably hundreds of things you could jot down, but typically people don't write up a checklist for every rule they just live by them. You made it a point yourself that you do business with licensed/insured street locations - so that doesn't fall under the category of "rules and disclaimers?" If you were getting bids for someone to build an addition onto your house, would you hire a brand new guy, or someone that came off a little flaky? People's reputations in everyday business don't factor in to your decision making? Of course you can sue a bad contractor, though a lot of those contractors go out of business & reorganize later, and the legal process can be an expensive hassle even when you're successful - this relates to my wife's area of expertise by the way and is not at all uncommon (more so now).
You mentioned that you work hard for your money, but the thing is I do also and I want it to go as far as I can. I'm probably more risk-averse and cautious than most people, but there comes a point where people can be so risk-averse that they wind up passing up opportunities that easily justify a small calculated risk. I'm sure you've heard stories about people who keep their life savings under the mattress, or who pass on the company 401k with price match because of the risk and the stock market horror stories - meanwhile the money their trying so hard to protect depreciates. But in most cases we're talking about simple things like used CDs, textbooks, a used calculator, or some bridge pickup. You can argue until you're blue in the face that everything is overpriced and you can always do better locally, but you'd be wrong. Try buying graduate-level textbooks at the campus bookstore used, or (when you can find them available at all for rarer graduate subjects) from other students on campus, and then see how often you can do vastly better online.
Best Buy? What a perfect example for you to throw out. You're talking about a place that pushes $99 HDMI cables on unsuspecting buyers, when the entire tech community including BB staff know full well there's zero functional difference between those and the generic kind you can buy for $1 on eBay, shipped to your door for free at that. Actually in my state there's that pesky sales tax, so the cable would be $106. As much as I don't like buying from sellers in China, sometimes you just gotta gamble. I threw caution to the wind and bought not one, but TWO cables (in case one failed). I can tell you that was a nerve-wracking 1wait. Toward the end there I really thought that $1.98 was as good as gone, but they came through.
As far as your bad eBay experience, I’m not sure what to tell you. So you had a dispute and didn’t follow up in whatever time frame you needed to meet with the investigation. Who’s fault is that? What do you think happens if you don't get a warranty claim in before it expires? How about when you have a legal dispute, and you don’t show up to court?
Justatele, your challenge to have someone buy whatever you choose to see if they get scammed makes it painfully clear where the first problem lies. eBay isn't a place where you just buy whatever, from whoever, at any price you happen to find it at. Those who grasp that are far more likely to have a better experience over time. If a person handles their money poorly, feels compelled to outbid everyone else for garbage and questionable items, can't be bothered to vet the seller's feedback, or doesn't have the good common sense to steer clear of abnormally high-risk items, then eBay just won't go that well for them.
And yes, I have tons of what you call "rules and disclaimers" to help protect myself from being scammed or ripped off, some apply to eBay while others apply elsewhere. Most people do. Besides a few simple settings changes like "US Only" on ebay, some of those rules encompass good common-sense concepts, such as:
1) "If it's too good to be true, it probably is"
2) Be cautious who you do business with
3) Guard your personal financial information
4) Don't answer random offers by mail or email
5) Read and understand all agreements and contracts before signing them
6) Make sure contractors/repairmen are licensed/insured
7) Hang on to receipts & warranty paperwork
8) Secure your computer, and double-check for the http"s" and the website address you're actually on before paying for anything
...and so on. If a given person put enough time into it and got specific enough, there's probably hundreds of things you could jot down, but typically people don't write up a checklist for every rule they just live by them. You made it a point yourself that you do business with licensed/insured street locations - so that doesn't fall under the category of "rules and disclaimers?" If you were getting bids for someone to build an addition onto your house, would you hire a brand new guy, or someone that came off a little flaky? People's reputations in everyday business don't factor in to your decision making? Of course you can sue a bad contractor, though a lot of those contractors go out of business & reorganize later, and the legal process can be an expensive hassle even when you're successful - this relates to my wife's area of expertise by the way and is not at all uncommon (more so now).
You mentioned that you work hard for your money, but the thing is I do also and I want it to go as far as I can. I'm probably more risk-averse and cautious than most people, but there comes a point where people can be so risk-averse that they wind up passing up opportunities that easily justify a small calculated risk. I'm sure you've heard stories about people who keep their life savings under the mattress, or who pass on the company 401k with price match because of the risk and the stock market horror stories - meanwhile the money their trying so hard to protect depreciates. But in most cases we're talking about simple things like used CDs, textbooks, a used calculator, or some bridge pickup. You can argue until you're blue in the face that everything is overpriced and you can always do better locally, but you'd be wrong. Try buying graduate-level textbooks at the campus bookstore used, or (when you can find them available at all for rarer graduate subjects) from other students on campus, and then see how often you can do vastly better online.
Best Buy? What a perfect example for you to throw out. You're talking about a place that pushes $99 HDMI cables on unsuspecting buyers, when the entire tech community including BB staff know full well there's zero functional difference between those and the generic kind you can buy for $1 on eBay, shipped to your door for free at that. Actually in my state there's that pesky sales tax, so the cable would be $106. As much as I don't like buying from sellers in China, sometimes you just gotta gamble. I threw caution to the wind and bought not one, but TWO cables (in case one failed). I can tell you that was a nerve-wracking 1wait. Toward the end there I really thought that $1.98 was as good as gone, but they came through.
As far as your bad eBay experience, I’m not sure what to tell you. So you had a dispute and didn’t follow up in whatever time frame you needed to meet with the investigation. Who’s fault is that? What do you think happens if you don't get a warranty claim in before it expires? How about when you have a legal dispute, and you don’t show up to court?
Jusatele
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Jay, do not do anything because of my rants
many feel they are full of shiteee, such as I do a lot of others
and you know what, Here in the good ole USA we have freedoms, and those freedoms are to disagree, also to debate, but the greatest part of freedom, is we do not have to agree and we can still be friends.
Another thing is the internet is a lousy place to debate, guys get all out of hand too quick as it seems written statement is taken as absolute and challenges when often if you were debating face to face it may be worded different as you see how someone is taking what you say.
Yes I have many friends who use ebay, I personally think they are nuts. Does not mean I feel that way about them in any other aspect, just in their decision to do business on Ebay
Many have good reason to use it. It is just my personal view that I do not choose to use a place to do business I have to bother with researching the guy I am buying from. Plus I like to be able to have a item in hand to check out before I buy it. Those are my choices and it protects me from having to expend energy trying to get money back. I also do not feel that after the bid process is over that you get your best deal on Ebay, I do so much better on CraigsList, I can shop the way I want, inspect the item, haggle over price, etc. I find if I hold hundred dollar bills in front of a seller he will more than not decide that, "yep I can come off that price for ya" is a common statement.
Anyway, everyone who likes to use Ebay, that is why they are around. And very successful with "ebay stores" and the such being included now. Some feel it is a way of the future and I remember when it was a way to clean out the garage of junk because someone would buy it.
Just because I stick to my guns, just because I think you are nuts for doing business on Ebay, Just because I never will, does not mean you have to get off of it, just because I think you will get scammed does not mean you ever will. But please admit one thing,,,,,, If you have to research a seller,, maybe the place you are doing business is a place scammers hang out and that maybe, just maybe ebay is home of the scammer.
PS, I could have said Sears, or Tom's Electronics or anything, Yes they all sell stuff for to much and I can go to a place local like our electronics warehouse and get that cable for 12 bucks but to keep it short I used Best Buy, which is another place I do not buy from, I just use them for price comparisons on sale items and get other places to price match. Yep getting money to stretch is fun, and you do not do it by not shopping, probably Why I search Craigs list for items I need. I think we do what we do for a reason, you like your method and I like mine.
About time limits, how many processes do you know that say, you need to try to contact the seller and report back in 2 weeks, I am trying to collect on a guarantee and you are telling me to do the foot work, not you and it is your guarantee. So I do such and then I get told I need to do this, and I do then I am told I need to do that, so I do, then they want a police report, so I file one and they say it needs to have been filed 3 months ago, case closed. Nope, will not do that again. The process is so designed to wear you down, if they truly wanted to enforce the money back guarantee they would have someone research it. but it is to much to often and would be a huge department so they make you do all the footwork. Bottom line is the guy cloesed his account and did not ship, now it is up to me to prove that ? And without him I can not. I am out a hundred, ebay says they are so sorry, seller reopens an account under another name, ebay has their money so what does it matter about me ?
many feel they are full of shiteee, such as I do a lot of others
and you know what, Here in the good ole USA we have freedoms, and those freedoms are to disagree, also to debate, but the greatest part of freedom, is we do not have to agree and we can still be friends.
Another thing is the internet is a lousy place to debate, guys get all out of hand too quick as it seems written statement is taken as absolute and challenges when often if you were debating face to face it may be worded different as you see how someone is taking what you say.
Yes I have many friends who use ebay, I personally think they are nuts. Does not mean I feel that way about them in any other aspect, just in their decision to do business on Ebay
Many have good reason to use it. It is just my personal view that I do not choose to use a place to do business I have to bother with researching the guy I am buying from. Plus I like to be able to have a item in hand to check out before I buy it. Those are my choices and it protects me from having to expend energy trying to get money back. I also do not feel that after the bid process is over that you get your best deal on Ebay, I do so much better on CraigsList, I can shop the way I want, inspect the item, haggle over price, etc. I find if I hold hundred dollar bills in front of a seller he will more than not decide that, "yep I can come off that price for ya" is a common statement.
Anyway, everyone who likes to use Ebay, that is why they are around. And very successful with "ebay stores" and the such being included now. Some feel it is a way of the future and I remember when it was a way to clean out the garage of junk because someone would buy it.
Just because I stick to my guns, just because I think you are nuts for doing business on Ebay, Just because I never will, does not mean you have to get off of it, just because I think you will get scammed does not mean you ever will. But please admit one thing,,,,,, If you have to research a seller,, maybe the place you are doing business is a place scammers hang out and that maybe, just maybe ebay is home of the scammer.
PS, I could have said Sears, or Tom's Electronics or anything, Yes they all sell stuff for to much and I can go to a place local like our electronics warehouse and get that cable for 12 bucks but to keep it short I used Best Buy, which is another place I do not buy from, I just use them for price comparisons on sale items and get other places to price match. Yep getting money to stretch is fun, and you do not do it by not shopping, probably Why I search Craigs list for items I need. I think we do what we do for a reason, you like your method and I like mine.
About time limits, how many processes do you know that say, you need to try to contact the seller and report back in 2 weeks, I am trying to collect on a guarantee and you are telling me to do the foot work, not you and it is your guarantee. So I do such and then I get told I need to do this, and I do then I am told I need to do that, so I do, then they want a police report, so I file one and they say it needs to have been filed 3 months ago, case closed. Nope, will not do that again. The process is so designed to wear you down, if they truly wanted to enforce the money back guarantee they would have someone research it. but it is to much to often and would be a huge department so they make you do all the footwork. Bottom line is the guy cloesed his account and did not ship, now it is up to me to prove that ? And without him I can not. I am out a hundred, ebay says they are so sorry, seller reopens an account under another name, ebay has their money so what does it matter about me ?
Disco Scottie
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I've been on eBay since 1997. Never had a single deal go bad, no scams, nothing. I've bought more than I've sold, but it's been fine on either end of the spectrum. If it weren't for eBay, I never would have had the opportunity to own many of the unique and hard-to-find guitars that have made their way into my collection.
Jusatele, what item are you challenging us to purchase?
Jusatele, what item are you challenging us to purchase?
Disco Scottie
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Jusatele said:
:laughing7:
Okay, choose one!
jay4321
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Jusatele said:
Is really this how you think intelligent, rational people use eBay? They just log on and seek out the most high-risk & most likely to be counterfeit items, like whatever you're looking to cherry-pick, and then buy them no matter what? If you intentionally go about any pursuit in the most dumbest possible manner you can dream up, then you're not very likely to be successful.
If your conviction was so strong you wouldn't need such an unrealistic rule in your challenge, which is essentially two requirements. First off, smart buyers don’t use eBay to buy any conceivable item blind. Second, in practice, you’re never required to purchase anything on eBay. Your challenge conveniently requires a person to do both in order to put them at a disadvantage. I don't need any silly handicap for my position, like I said I have a decade worth of history backing that up as do many others.
I used to work with a guy that made these types of contrarian arguments all the time. A young intern would be talking about her health and make an offhanded comment like, "I like jogging, it's good for you." He'd come back with something along the lines of "Oh yeah? Let me choose which neighborhood and see how good for you it is. Bet me. Bet me."
Jusatele
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no jay, I do not think you just log on and go for it
and that is the point
you have to protect yourself
you have to go through a ritual of "is this safe ?" where you look at the item and analyze it and analyze the seller.
everyone here who uses Ebay admits that.
I say if you have to analyze the situation, then you are in a place where there is a high probability you can be ripped off. And if you have to protect yourself from scams, you are in a den of scammers.
why is that so hard to admit to guys? What is false about the saying Ebay, home of the scammer ?
It seems the people here that want to convince me I am wrong and that ebay is safe, and find it offensive that I call it a den of thieves, all tell me I need to have a set of rules to go by to make sure I do not get scammed.
If I went to JC Pennys, and had to analyze whether I could trust the sales person when buying a pair of pants, how long would they be open? Do I need to check the reputation of the clerk ?
the challenge I make to let me choose any item is just to make a point, IF I were to look for an item, you pay for it and have it shipped to me, after I get it we find out we got scammed and I shipp the item to you and say, sorry we lost the money here is the item. You would be POed and rightfully so. And I really think that no one here will do such as they know it is stupid, when I find that item I want, and it looks like a scam, being put out by a first time seller, wanting 5 grand buy it now send a money order to this African address, you are going to warn me it is a bad deal. And that is the point. You have to pick and choose and be "Intelligent" not to be scammed. I do not have to be such at Albertsons when buying a steak. If I saw the item on Craigslist I could go there and handle it, I do not have that option on ebay. My challenge is very realistic, what it proves is that you have to be careful of who and what on ebay, or get scammed.
my challenge, let me find an item, you pay for it, and if the item is real, I pay you, if we get scammed you lost the money and I am fine. If we do not get scammed, you are correct and ebay is not the home of the scammer, if you do get scammed, well as I say............So you up to it? is ebay a place were you are not afraid of getting scammed? that you can put down that list of discalimers and trust me?
That is what it boils down to, if you are offended by me saying something, prove that I am wrong, but no one here can, what they can do is reinforce my convictions by listing a set of rules you have to go by not to get scammed.
and that is the point
you have to protect yourself
you have to go through a ritual of "is this safe ?" where you look at the item and analyze it and analyze the seller.
everyone here who uses Ebay admits that.
I say if you have to analyze the situation, then you are in a place where there is a high probability you can be ripped off. And if you have to protect yourself from scams, you are in a den of scammers.
why is that so hard to admit to guys? What is false about the saying Ebay, home of the scammer ?
It seems the people here that want to convince me I am wrong and that ebay is safe, and find it offensive that I call it a den of thieves, all tell me I need to have a set of rules to go by to make sure I do not get scammed.
If I went to JC Pennys, and had to analyze whether I could trust the sales person when buying a pair of pants, how long would they be open? Do I need to check the reputation of the clerk ?
the challenge I make to let me choose any item is just to make a point, IF I were to look for an item, you pay for it and have it shipped to me, after I get it we find out we got scammed and I shipp the item to you and say, sorry we lost the money here is the item. You would be POed and rightfully so. And I really think that no one here will do such as they know it is stupid, when I find that item I want, and it looks like a scam, being put out by a first time seller, wanting 5 grand buy it now send a money order to this African address, you are going to warn me it is a bad deal. And that is the point. You have to pick and choose and be "Intelligent" not to be scammed. I do not have to be such at Albertsons when buying a steak. If I saw the item on Craigslist I could go there and handle it, I do not have that option on ebay. My challenge is very realistic, what it proves is that you have to be careful of who and what on ebay, or get scammed.
my challenge, let me find an item, you pay for it, and if the item is real, I pay you, if we get scammed you lost the money and I am fine. If we do not get scammed, you are correct and ebay is not the home of the scammer, if you do get scammed, well as I say............So you up to it? is ebay a place were you are not afraid of getting scammed? that you can put down that list of discalimers and trust me?
That is what it boils down to, if you are offended by me saying something, prove that I am wrong, but no one here can, what they can do is reinforce my convictions by listing a set of rules you have to go by not to get scammed.
I think I see the issue here. Jusatele is treating ebay as a store, when it is just a middleman that facilitates transactions. I don't buy things from ebay, I buy them from sellers who use ebay to advertise their stuff.
There are many scams on Craigslist too, and you can be cheated or robbed dealing with people you don't know and meeting in unfamiliar places. But you might say you only meet in public places and only deal in cash. Well then you are taking precautions just as ebayers have to. Just look at how many ads on Craigslist mention "no scammers".
If there is an issue buying something without being able to handle it first, why doesn't Warmoth count?
There are many scams on Craigslist too, and you can be cheated or robbed dealing with people you don't know and meeting in unfamiliar places. But you might say you only meet in public places and only deal in cash. Well then you are taking precautions just as ebayers have to. Just look at how many ads on Craigslist mention "no scammers".
If there is an issue buying something without being able to handle it first, why doesn't Warmoth count?
Cagey
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richship said:
That's a good observation, and I agree.
You're right about Craig's List, too. I've sold a number of things on there, and it's amazing how it draws the scammers out of the woodwork. The last few items I've advertised I included a caveat at the bottom of the ad that says:
Interestingly, they've been the most trouble-free transactions I've done there.
bagman67
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Cagey said:
The disclaimer you provide, Cagey, does scare off a fair number of tire-kickers and sleazeballs. Alas, there are automated bots that just respond to anything that's positive for the right keywords, and a human being only gets involved at the captcha stage if there is one. But at least those are pretty easy to spot, after you've made the mistake of responding to one or two of them.
More generally, I detect a lot of conversation on these topics, but little actual disagreement. I think we all agree you ought to be cautious when dealing with online merchants of any stripe, and the seller feedback ratings and other criteria help us to do something analogous to what we would do in a brick'n'mortar establishment, sizing up the goods and the merchants. Regrettably, much nuance is lost in the text-only realm of an interwebz forum.
Finally, I think Warmoth (and Lands End, and lots of other established online retailers) gets a pass because it has a documented, lengthy history of providing good value for the dollar and good customer service. Anyone who pops up out of nowhere, on the other hand, is a roll of the dice.
Disco Scottie
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- 651
Jusatele said:
Everything you're claiming is an eBay problem can also happen just as easily with brick & mortar or mail-order/online stores. I can throw the challenge right back at you, let me find an item and have you buy it. If it's a pair of pants, there's gonna be a local store that charges more for the same pair that's cheaper elsewhere, and they will probably sell me a counterfeit designer label if I'm not careful. If I want a digital camera, there are about a bazillion phone/mail/online retailers waiting to screw you (giant list here) with all kinds of crap. And many of those have walk-in stores where you can get bent over in person.
Now sure, you say you'd never shop at those places. Why? Because you would (using your words) "pick and choose and be 'Intelligent' not to be scammed"...which is EXACTLY HOW SMART SHOPPERS AVOID PROBLEMS ON EBAY.
If I tell you to avoid getting new tires for your car at a local place that just opened, charges five times more than anyone else, and only takes cash payments, it's no different from being warned about an eBay seller that (again, your words) "looks like a scam, being put out by a first time seller, wanting 5 grand buy it now send a money order to this African address"...please explain to me how these examples aren't exactly the same.
Teles arguments are just full of rhetoric. These comparisons are not even keeled. This is getting comical. If you are not comfortable using the service then don't by all means. Realistically your generalized blanket statements are highly innacurate. The fact that eBay is a lot safer than what you claim it to be. The amount of scams compared to legitimate transactions is very apparent. All you have to do is check the feedback. It's there in black and white from the people who are actually using it instead of just bitching about it. If you go by the numbers then u would see it is hardly a den scammers. To label something a den would imply a majority. It just is not that way. These circles and repetition are tiresome. There is no facts to back up this rant.
