B
back2thefutre
Guest
This guy and my ex-girlfriend would get along great. :evil4:
This is a Warmoth?!?
- Thread starter Disco Scottie
- Start date
O
OzziePete
Guest
jwl68th said:
I emailed Tradition enquiring if the guitar was one of theirs, but the listing got pulled from Craigslist (which I linked in my email to Tradition) before they had a chance to look at it. Definitely 'buyer beware' if he is using several guitar making companies' names then pulls the ad and reappears using another company for the same item. Is this moron still using the Warmoth name? :tard:
jay4321
Hero Member
- Messages
- 1,303
Jusatele said:
10 years I've been on eBay I've only ever had one minor issue (over a couple of used DVDs). Just describe what you're selling in honest detail and with all the ugly warts included, don't exaggerate, and take decent photos. A guitar being an off-brand or having a few faults is ok for a lot of people there, but they also apperciate honesty. When I'm reading an auction and a guy is BS'ing left and right I start thinking less about the item and more about my chances of being ripped off. It's kind of like taking your car to a mechanic you don't know - there's that vague sense you're getting screwed.
Common sense applies for other buying habits... avoid new sellers, everyone from China, and anything easily forged or otherwise too good to be true. Buying an "authentic" NFL jersey from a guy in Hong Kong for a quarter of it's normal price is just asking for trouble.
When selling I always try to put a reasonably fair price, jack up the buyer requirements as stringently as allowed, US residents only, be objective, and require immediate payment via Buy It Now. The extra money you might have made in a bidding war is gone, but then again you don't have to worry about an item selling at an unexpectedly low price, or dealing with non-paying bidders which are just a pain. Shipping overseas is usually a headache too.
Jusatele said:
Or Maybe eBay itself is the Scammer!!!!
I recently put something up for sale for the first time in a while, and found out they increased their final sales fee twice since last time!!!!
first they increased the fee to 9% of the total price (incl shipping) and then they increased the cap from $50 to $100!!!
so selling anything over a$1000 will cost you close 10 $100 or more.. what a rip off... I hate it when companies like these abuse their monopoly..
Cagey
Mythical Status
- Messages
- 24,425
B3Guy said:
More to the point, it takes a lot of money to resolve the number of scams perpetrated. Probably the same thing, when you get right down to it.
People are funny, though. They'll look at a thing and say "I got it for $47!" and completely disregard what they paid in shipping and paypal fees, which made the transaction actually cost $76 out-of-pocket.
Jusatele
Hero Member
- Messages
- 2,953
Cagey, I see things go for auction for more than you can buy it for at the store, then add feesCagey said:
Like I said , Ebay, home of the scammer
only guys I see defend Ebay are addicted to it. they say they have been using it for years and have never been scammed, then they tell you that you have to look out for new users, or deals that look to good, or this or that, it makes me think if they have this list you need to look out for, and they have never been scammed, then how did they compile the list?
Ebay, home of the scammer
I have freinds who have been scammed, I have been scammed, I read on line of guys who have been scammed. but guys tell me all the time the have used it for 10 years and never been scammed, then like I say, they start putting out the disclaimer. I smile, and refuse to use the service, noe I hear it is 9 percent to sell, and then like they said fees for the use of Paypal or such, Wow it seems even the honest guys are getting scammed.
Ebay, teaching the scam every day
Cagey
Mythical Status
- Messages
- 24,425
Jusatele said:
I see that all the time, too. I don't know if anyone buys stuff that way - you'd have to be a terrible shopper if you did. But, look as the Home Shopping Network, and places like that. Worthless junk at artificially high prices, and people just eat it up.
To be fair, there are a lot of people who have severely distorted ideas of what things are worth. I have a buddy who's that way. A basement, garage, attic and spare rooms full of crap that even the mice won't make homes in. Then he bitches about not having any space. Ask him why he's saving all this junk, he'll tell you it's not junk and it's all worth too much to throw away and will only grow in value.
One positive thing about eBay is if something has any value, that's where you'll realize it. If you put something up and it doesn't sell for what you want, or doesn't sell at all at any price, then it's time for the trash barrel. It's truly worthless. As Ben Franklin said "The worth of a thing is the price it will bring". Anything past that is simply wishful thinking.
One final point - eBay is a good sales data resource. Many don't realize you can check "completed listings". These are auctions/sales that have passed their drop-dead date and no longer show up in searches/listings. That's where you find out what things actually sell for, if at all. If more people would check that, you wouldn't see nearly as many ridiculous "buy it now" prices or outrageous bids.
Jusatele
Hero Member
- Messages
- 2,953
I honestly believe that things are of value to those who collect them
and to them only, Look at beenie babies, a few years back they were being collected by everyone, and worth 8 to 15 dollars each, now no one collects them and you can get boxes full of them at garage sales for pennies on last years dollars
what ebay has done is made artificial collectors out of the masses, if it is worth money, put it in ebay, and guys will bid on it, others see the pricing and start to bid to have something of value and soon a person who collects 1960 era Fender guitars is paying 10,000 for a guitar worth 3 grand a few years back. This makes things good to the seller, and next the scammer gets a hold of the picture and they start to manufacture old guitars, Just look at how easy it is to get old fender stickers, and now think, well I can get the serial numbers made also, research a bit and learn about production and authenticating techniques, and bingo you are on the road to Ebay success selling fake 1960 guitars that look real because on Ebay you cannot check to see if it is real till it is in your hands after the auction is over and you have received the item. Then if ripped off you can start a claims action, (go through one of those and learn how much they protect you, NOT) so instead of being stuck with it, just put it back on Ebay.
and the cycle goes on and on and on
so the price of the guitar is tripled because Ebay has made a collectible item super collectible and upped the market for it. That is all it seems they have done beside flooded the market with Junk
and to them only, Look at beenie babies, a few years back they were being collected by everyone, and worth 8 to 15 dollars each, now no one collects them and you can get boxes full of them at garage sales for pennies on last years dollars
what ebay has done is made artificial collectors out of the masses, if it is worth money, put it in ebay, and guys will bid on it, others see the pricing and start to bid to have something of value and soon a person who collects 1960 era Fender guitars is paying 10,000 for a guitar worth 3 grand a few years back. This makes things good to the seller, and next the scammer gets a hold of the picture and they start to manufacture old guitars, Just look at how easy it is to get old fender stickers, and now think, well I can get the serial numbers made also, research a bit and learn about production and authenticating techniques, and bingo you are on the road to Ebay success selling fake 1960 guitars that look real because on Ebay you cannot check to see if it is real till it is in your hands after the auction is over and you have received the item. Then if ripped off you can start a claims action, (go through one of those and learn how much they protect you, NOT) so instead of being stuck with it, just put it back on Ebay.
and the cycle goes on and on and on
so the price of the guitar is tripled because Ebay has made a collectible item super collectible and upped the market for it. That is all it seems they have done beside flooded the market with Junk
Sure shit happens. It happens everywhere. I hardly think eBay is the root of vintage fakes though. Guitar isn't the product this has happened too. If you feel the need to blame somebody blame the consumers. There fake Jordan out there selling like hot cakes. People know they are fake yet they still buy them. Hell there are even SZ clone cameras and nova and everything else. It's all a matter of supply and demand. As far as a list of precautions for buying on eBay, doesn't every purchase carry some sort of scrutiny. Of course you are going to make purchases from a seller with a good track record. Of course you want to make sure the item is exactly as described. The format is there to communicate and if you aren't asking.g the right questions then shame on you for making an uneducated purchase. You will have your messages as proof to back up your claims if need be. I am by no means addicted to eBay. I do enjoy it. I did have two purchases that weren't as smooth as I would like. One was a guitar body with a crack in the neck pocket and some chips that weren't exactly as described. I opened a claim after the seller became uncooperative and the issue was resolved with my buyer protection. The process can be tedious but there are three remote parties involved. That is to be expected. I should have asked for clear pictures or maybe measurements because those would be much more precise than just a description of minor sings. But that is where being smart comes into play. Again if you aren't savvy enough to use the online auction site then it is probably best you don't.
Jusatele
Hero Member
- Messages
- 2,953
Pablo, pre ebay, a lot of markets were very local, as was the vintage market for instruments. Ebay made them global, and it has done such for a of markets. I can say the market for used vintage auto parts, pre ebay it was the local paper or Hemmings motor news, now put that rear fender for a 48 ford truck on Ebay and it is worth 20 times what a scrap yard for for it 10 years ago. It is the bid for it phenom. In a non bid market you list and it goes for 80 percent less, cash, I will pick it up on Friday, type of deal. Since ebay it is list, wait and see guys go gaga over it, watch it go for 3 times what you thought you could get and the owner does not complain about the huge dent in it, he just wants original.
That is what Ebay has done for us
I buy off Craigslist for parts for my 2 vintage Jeeps and get items for a 3rd of what they are bid up for on Ebay, I also get to go look at the part and see the huge dent and pass on it before sending money. I also find talking direct face to face to guys has big benefits as leads are passed back and forth and such,
Ebay truly is the scammers market and junk is passed off as great stuff on a minute to minute basis, Just look at the threads we have here about bad stuff, and we just get what we can catch, there is so much bad junk going out there.
Forgeries are rampant in the vintage market and sites like Ebay drive that. It is hard to authenticate what is real as records were not kept good as no one figured they ever would be a market for stuff like old instruments.
Anyway, do business where you please, I choose to do it where I can handle and investigate before transferring money, and unless you can physically view or handle an item, your ability to protect your self from a scam is extremely low. I truly feel with Ebay the maxim "A Fool and His Money are Soon Parted." is a hourly Experience.
Your opinion and your experiences may be different, but I have worked hard for what I have and I do not do business where I feel I can easily be ripped off.
And as I have said, everyone I know who does business on Ebay will give a disclaimer about what to look out for, If you neet a list of things to look for to protect yourself, then you are doing business in a Den of Thieves. Or do you carry a list of people not to buy from when you go to the Drug Store ?
That is what Ebay has done for us
I buy off Craigslist for parts for my 2 vintage Jeeps and get items for a 3rd of what they are bid up for on Ebay, I also get to go look at the part and see the huge dent and pass on it before sending money. I also find talking direct face to face to guys has big benefits as leads are passed back and forth and such,
Ebay truly is the scammers market and junk is passed off as great stuff on a minute to minute basis, Just look at the threads we have here about bad stuff, and we just get what we can catch, there is so much bad junk going out there.
Forgeries are rampant in the vintage market and sites like Ebay drive that. It is hard to authenticate what is real as records were not kept good as no one figured they ever would be a market for stuff like old instruments.
Anyway, do business where you please, I choose to do it where I can handle and investigate before transferring money, and unless you can physically view or handle an item, your ability to protect your self from a scam is extremely low. I truly feel with Ebay the maxim "A Fool and His Money are Soon Parted." is a hourly Experience.
Your opinion and your experiences may be different, but I have worked hard for what I have and I do not do business where I feel I can easily be ripped off.
And as I have said, everyone I know who does business on Ebay will give a disclaimer about what to look out for, If you neet a list of things to look for to protect yourself, then you are doing business in a Den of Thieves. Or do you carry a list of people not to buy from when you go to the Drug Store ?
I actually think guitar shows started the trouble long before eBay came around. But I definitely understand the adage of spending ur money wisely. I guess I just feel that eBay isn't as bad as people say. In the retail market there are stores I will not shop at and manufactures whose products I will not buy. Also I am not talkin about making average everyday purchases through the bay either. It is reserved for interesting pieces or good deals. I'm not advocating for every seller on the site. I'm just willing to venture a guess and say that the amount of legitimate problem free transactions vastly outnumbers the scams. But yeah I guess to each his own.
jay4321
Hero Member
- Messages
- 1,303
Jusatele said:
As I mentioned I'm one of the 10-year people on eBay so this partially addresses me. I have never had an issue that couldn't be reasonably reconciled, and that's over a relatively modest ~200 transactions. The one major problem I recall (thinking way back) a guy in CA who shipped a guitar with a broken and badly repaired/glued headstock (not shipping damage), and the seller suddenly caught a flurry of bad feedback, he just went bad after a few years. I filed a claim with Paypal, had to return the guitar and got my money back under seller protection. Other than the return shipping cost that was it. In the other case I mentioned there was a dispute over two used DVDs I'd sold, which had been sent to the buyer's listed address which he no longer lived at and didn't update. We adjusted feedback once resolved. In the first case he was kicked off so his feedback was nullified.
And that's it. For those two inconveniences, I've been able to buy/sell a lot of things that are hard to come by locally as needed for ten years. Used and new guitar parts, guitar decals on the cheap. See if the local GC has a used set of the pickups you're looking for on any given day, or a specific pedal or whatever. Another member here has a fantastic new guitar, partly constructed with a body I found for about $75 and didn't use. They don't sell Japanese Pelham Blue '62 RI Strat bodies around here either.
Had a high-speed printer that was replaced and listed two leftover tonar cartridges, $40 is $40. What would I do with them otherwise besides throw them out? While Craigslist is nice for some things, cars/parts, home gym things, bikes, things a lot of people would be looking for and expensive to ship. That's all fine. But it's very hit or miss with what you can sell and what's available compared to the larger audience. Many people aren't in heavily populated areas where whatever they need is available all of the time within a 10 minute drive, you know? On top of that there's the issue of dealing with randoms coming to your house, but that's another story. I live in southern NJ, which is pretty densely populated, and my Craiglist region covers areas as much as 1.5 hours away. Here's the slim pickings I get to choose from: http://southjersey.craigslist.org/msg/
The reason a person would know not to buy from non-established sellers is mostly common sense. Do you actually need to be scammed first to realize that a $299 Gibson Les Pauls are counterfeit? And is eBay really the right place to buy those "authentic" 1950's bakelite pickup covers, or some other difficult to authenticate collectors piece? Or trusting a brand new seller with no online reputation on a large purchase? I would hope not. These aren't eBay-specific problems. Those adages like "a fool and his money are soon parted" were created long before eBay was around.
You keep mentioning a list/disclaimer and make broad statements about how if you need to have them then you shouldn't shop there. That's just nonsense. Remember that eBay is a collection of individual people and individual businesses. It's not one business with a bunch of employees (like in your poorly considered drug store analogy).
What else don't you like? Lots of junk on eBay? No kidding. There's a lot of junk on Craigslist too, and virtually every store on the planet. I suspect the junkyards you’ve found auto parts at might have something in the way of junk also.
That you can't protect yourself buying on eBay isn't quite right either. It isn't foolproof by a long shot, but that doesn't mean you're helpless. They have a seller protection program, and a feedback system to help you evaluate the risk of the person you might buy from. A person with 5 years worth of positive feedback and a decent sample size of transactions is just not all that likely to try and rip you off on a $45 guitar pedal. He or she has a vested interest in maintaining a good eBay reputation so that they might continue selling things there in the future.
Fees. Yes, eBay and Paypal have relatively high fees and I wish they were a lot less, but even that's not unique to them. Also Paypal is required and many members have a beef with that (though it’s all I use). I live in a state with 7% sales tax, and the last time I talked to a local shop about selling a used instrument they wanted 40% commission on the consignment.
Also, you seem to be alluding to the idea that everything on eBay sells for much more than what you can get them for locally - in many cases that's demonstrably false. While some people will overpay for things [again, is this really something that only happens on eBay?], that doesn't mean everyone else has to.
So when you mindlessly repeat “home of the scammer” and make baseless remarks like “the only people who defend it are addicted to it” it sounds like you’re projecting your own faults or past mistakes onto others, or just don’t have that great a grip on how the whole thing works. eBay isn’t perfect by a long shot, but there are countless long-term members who are honest/responsible people that don’t fit into the categories you’re trying so hard to fit them in.
Similar threads
