I was just having a very similar conversation with my dad. It would be great if we could keep Tebow and turn him into a slot receiver. Or could you imagine him catching passes out of the backfield? That would lethal with Manning running the O. I know with all the Tebowmania there is no way the two can exist in Denver. Too bad. The other thing is I'm sure Tim sees himself as a quarterback and that's what he wants to do. Oh well, Sanchez will Tony Romo it and Tebow will get his chance. I hope he is successful. He gave our team a big kick in the ass and.if it wasn't for him I'm sure we would have no Manning because we would be in fullblown rebuilding mode.
TeBowie
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jay4321
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The whole Tebowmania thing is just silly.
Denver scored an average of 18.7 points per game in Tebow's 13 starts at QB, and that includes special teams and defensive scores. That's pretty bad, and it's lost on some people how bad because of his late game theatrics. 5 of his 8 wins came despite scoring 18 or fewer points.... unless you have the '85 Bears playing defense behind you that's just not sustainable. I'm all for questioning old-school assumptions but I don't think there's any getting around the idea that if you're going to play quarterback in the NFL, you have to be able to throw the ball.
Denver scored an average of 18.7 points per game in Tebow's 13 starts at QB, and that includes special teams and defensive scores. That's pretty bad, and it's lost on some people how bad because of his late game theatrics. 5 of his 8 wins came despite scoring 18 or fewer points.... unless you have the '85 Bears playing defense behind you that's just not sustainable. I'm all for questioning old-school assumptions but I don't think there's any getting around the idea that if you're going to play quarterback in the NFL, you have to be able to throw the ball.
jay4321
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And I'm a little surprised that they felt the need to trade Tebow. He doesn't cost much and there has to be a place for his skill set on the field even in a Manning-led offense. You could do all sorts of things with TT at fullback, and God forbid if he can catch at all. He was let go for what, a 4th round and a swap of 3rds? The kid has more value than that.
Side note: I heard he may have hit some salary escalators or something, obviously if he's due a lot more than the $1.Xm type of money he was on the books for, that changes things a bit.
Side note: I heard he may have hit some salary escalators or something, obviously if he's due a lot more than the $1.Xm type of money he was on the books for, that changes things a bit.
Tebow was already paid. I don't think any one has delusions of Tebow being a traditional qb. His deficiencies are very apparent. You are right the wins were ugly and everyone knew it wouldn't continue. That's why there was never an all out endorsement from Elway on Tebow. Again I think Tebow wants to play qb, that's the only reason I can see for him not playing other positions on the field. That would allow a team to take advantage of all of his attributes without limiting yourself to a qb that can't throw. Besides I think the Jets will benefit just from having him in the locker room.
Torment Leaves Scars
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Tebow never had a chance. Elway never liked his style. Nevermind the fact Tebow's never scored a touchdown for the opposing team. :doh:
jay4321
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pabloman said:
The signing bonus is paid/eaten by Denver, but he still has his base salaries (minus advances) coming & the Jets assume those unless a new deal is worked out.
2012: $1.1 million + $2.5m share of advances (they split the $5m with Denver)
2013: $6.055 million
2014: $7.145 million
+ possible escalators too. Most NLTBE.
Most likely those '13 and '14 numbers are where the advances came from so they should be manageable enough once cut down, however exactly they're structured against the cap. But that assumes he proves to be a viable asset as a backup/package QB, or becomes an elite stud TE or HB. Otherwise even that money is too much.
Pretty clear what the rest of the front offices think of Tebow though. The total value of this trade between the 4th rounder and swapped picks works out to somewhere around the 110th-120th selection in the draft, basically a mid-4th rounder, give or take. He's healthy 24-year-old QB with a recent playoff win and a huge fan base, in a QB-needy league, but 31 teams just said he's not even worth a 3rd-round pick and the 32nd team doesn't even think he's worth a 4th rounder to keep. Ouch.
I wouldn't be surprised to see this thing in NY last only one season. He seems like a nice guy and all but nothing about his game makes me think he's a viable NFL QB. It's like watching Buzz Lightyear "fly."
Poor dumb Denver. Peyton Manning has had a cervical fusion, after the first two operations showed that they couldn't stabilize his neck any other way. They had to do something, because the vertebrae had tilted and were abrading his spinal cord. The problem is, after a successful cervical fusion - you can't turn your head. The reason I know this is, I had the exact same thing a decade ago. I had the customary three vertebrae fused instead of two, so Peyton's operation won't cause him quite as much difficulty except - he's in a job where turning your head is pretty important.
If you think the opposing defensive coaches aren't going to try to take advantage of a 36-year-old's blind spots, well... I understand what Peyton's role in this is - one last big payday, just like all the other 36-year-olds dream of, but I don't understand what Denver is doing. Even without the injury, how many guys that old start over on a new team with a new system and lead them anywhere? There's some heavy-duty publicity-stunting going on, but who knows what's in the fine print.... Manning would probably make a great coach.
He signed a 4-year, 90-million dollar contract with Indianapolis, before the extent of his neck problem were public. Then, after the operation that limited his head's movement, the Colts (wisely) dumped him - had he been lying to them? Regardless, he's now signed a 5-year, 96-million dollar contract so full of performance bonuses it's impossible to know what he'll get. Elway's thinking has got to be colored by the fact that he was 37 and 38 when his team won their Super Bowls, but that's freakishly old for a quarterback.
If you think the opposing defensive coaches aren't going to try to take advantage of a 36-year-old's blind spots, well... I understand what Peyton's role in this is - one last big payday, just like all the other 36-year-olds dream of, but I don't understand what Denver is doing. Even without the injury, how many guys that old start over on a new team with a new system and lead them anywhere? There's some heavy-duty publicity-stunting going on, but who knows what's in the fine print.... Manning would probably make a great coach.
He signed a 4-year, 90-million dollar contract with Indianapolis, before the extent of his neck problem were public. Then, after the operation that limited his head's movement, the Colts (wisely) dumped him - had he been lying to them? Regardless, he's now signed a 5-year, 96-million dollar contract so full of performance bonuses it's impossible to know what he'll get. Elway's thinking has got to be colored by the fact that he was 37 and 38 when his team won their Super Bowls, but that's freakishly old for a quarterback.
Rickgrxbass
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My cousin Ryan is the Colt's new GM, so I'm getting a kick out of this thread...
If only I gave a crap about football :dontknow:
If only I gave a crap about football :dontknow:
I dont know who the hell would write a 96 million dollar check based on sentiment. Manninig was checked out by several teams and I'm sure as sad as the teams were that didn't get him, they sure would have made public if he couldn't turn his head. I'm sure a guy that earns 15 million a year probably has a much better medical team available than your average forumite. The way contracts are structured there's no way a player can hide medical conditions this serious from the team. Who's gonna pay someone that kind of money for their body and then not pay attention?
Super Turbo Deluxe Custom
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96 million is contingent on passing a physical every year. Only 18 million is guaranteed, and no signing bonus. Denver covered their butts.
Super Turbo Deluxe Custom
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The thing that stinks most about the deal is that Peyton's days are numbered. Worn out quarterbacks typically don't get better, though there are exceptions. Tebow, say you want, he was winning. I think it spoke more to Denver's kicker and defense, all he had to do was stay upright and not throw interceptions, which he did. Now, a young quarterback is gone from a good team and a coin is about to be flipped on an old one. If it doesn't work out, Denver has their money back but no QB. That and $1.25 will get you a Coke.
But young quarterbacks who can't pass or read defenses at a high level are a dime a dozen. Staying with Tebow would have meant a lot of games next year that looked like the Patriot's dismemberment / violation of you guys in the last game, if teams had an offseason to prep.Super Turbo Deluxe Custom said:
Tebow is smart & very hard-working though - he simply never had to "pass or read defenses" and he still won a Heisman and two national championships! Urban Meyer didn't teach him doodly, why bother.... When he finds the right team and a quarterback coach who will actually try to teach him something instead of treating him like the threat to the established QB (which he sure is) he may just pile up some Super Bowls that'll make the "great" Payton's umm... one look kinda sparse. People act like "throwing mechanics" or "reading defenses" is something you're just born with or not. ... duh, consider the Manning boys' background. It's not like Tebow is somehow resistant to getting better or something - which may be just a possibility for the other wonder kid Cam Newton. I don't know where that expectation comes from, just that John Elway had some instant aversion - unexplained, that I can see. But I expect to see Tebow & Newton for a long, long time in the NFL.
Dude, you are pretty much always right. But I'd bet you a set of Fralins that Tebow doesn't get a snap of real play in, say, 2016. He is smart, but he's been around the game a while now already. You CAN teach something like throwing mechanics, to an extent, but at the level of play we're talking about, you either can do it by now or you just won't be able to do it. You think Shaq never worked on his free throws?StubHead said:
QBs improve their reads, their decisions, their instincts get better with NFL experience but at the point someone like Tebow is at, he's not going to get much better at actually chucking the rock. That's what Elway knows, that's why nobody offered him a good contract to be a starter after seeing him on the field for a bunch of games, that's why the stinkin' Jets only want him as a change of pace publicity stunt.
jay4321
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You see a lot of glimpses of spread option and probably more as time goes on, but the smart money is still on drop-back passing quarterbacks. Someone like Cam Newton can use some spread option traits in Carolina and probably be pretty successful with it to some degree, but only because he has a (very) live arm and traditional pocket skills to back that up and develop further. Tebow doesn't, and if his last year was any indication, it's doubtful he ever will because he's just so far behind the curve. Who cares why.
And Tebow-Newton aren't comparable, and never were. The biggest pre-draft questions about Newton were his maturity level, adjusting his dropbacks, how he'd adjust to reading NFL offenses - the latter is very common as lot of college QBs play those systems. No doubt in anyone's mind he was a top-10 prospect all told though. Tebow's pre-draft questions weren't just small things (like say, Rodgers' throwing motion looking weird), they were just fundamental shortcomings in passing that he's still showing now.
Now that we've seen Newton start a year & just finished Tebow's second season, there is no comparison whatsoever. Tebow's worth a 4th to sell tickets. You couldn't even trade for Newton with 3 1sts and a Tebow thrown in right now.
If Tebow wants to play QB he's going to wind up doing it as a #3 or in another league entirely before long. I like a feel good Rudy story too but come on. He's more name than fame.
And Tebow-Newton aren't comparable, and never were. The biggest pre-draft questions about Newton were his maturity level, adjusting his dropbacks, how he'd adjust to reading NFL offenses - the latter is very common as lot of college QBs play those systems. No doubt in anyone's mind he was a top-10 prospect all told though. Tebow's pre-draft questions weren't just small things (like say, Rodgers' throwing motion looking weird), they were just fundamental shortcomings in passing that he's still showing now.
Now that we've seen Newton start a year & just finished Tebow's second season, there is no comparison whatsoever. Tebow's worth a 4th to sell tickets. You couldn't even trade for Newton with 3 1sts and a Tebow thrown in right now.
If Tebow wants to play QB he's going to wind up doing it as a #3 or in another league entirely before long. I like a feel good Rudy story too but come on. He's more name than fame.
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