Talk me into/out of a 34" scale Warmoth 5 string

[AprioriMark]

I really don't want a "modern" looking bass like the Gecko (even though I'm sure they're amazing).  I want to build a '51 P-bass for a project I'm enjoying, but I'm looking for opinions on the upsides and downsides to 34" vs 35" scale... well, and this build entirely.  I want it to sound like a P-bass, since that's the tone that fits best with this group.  I've tried MANY basses, and my plane-jane (though Warmoth-necked) P-bass is the perfect sound.  I don't want soapbar pickups; I do want a 5 string version of the P-bass pickup.

I'm thinking:
Birdseye Maple neck
Bloodwood or Rosewood fingerboard with either abalone or no inlays
BML tuners
Bridge?
(Profit)
Swamp Ash body with a dark burst (either brown or black)
5 string P-bass pickup (brand?)  or possibly the old P-bass single coil in 5 string (depending on sound... I'm borrowing a buddy's Sting bass to check out the sound this weekend).

-Mark

 

[tubby.twins]

For a 34" scale, I think you'll get a better B-string with a stiffer neck.  Bubinga, while it may not look like a vintage '51 P-bass, would probably do better than Maple.

Delano makes a nice 5-string split-coil P-bass pickup.  I actually used to have one, but sold it locally due to string spacing issues on a Gecko.

Warmoth's "Takeuchi" bridges are well-made and should work nicely for this.

 

[SkuttleFunk]

as one who builds many custom '51 Tele P 5-string basses each year, let me offer a few thoughts from actual experience with this very unique marvel ...

- a Birdseye neck will work just fine, but it aesthetically loses some of what a Tele P is all about IMO. I'd run with a Maple fretboard if you're wanting a slab body and vintage semi-transparent butterscotch or a Rosewood fretboard if you're doing forearm and tummy contours with a burst finish

- Hipshot makes a vintage bent plate bridge that is very close sonically to the original dual saddle bridges of the original Tele P's. I like the added ease of intonation set-up vs the torture a dual saddle can be when determining how best to average the intonation differences between the E and A strings, and it's still easier than the Wilkinson adjustable dual saddle bridges

- a Swamp Ash body is just the ticket

- don't waste you time on thru-body stringing unless you're building a 4-string and going for total vintage clone (visually) ... a properly set-up bass will have near zero sonic difference between the two bridge stringing methods IME - definitely nothing that will be discernable in a recorded or live mix

- be sure that the pole piece spacing of whatever SCPB pickup you choose is perfectly on center with the string crossing above it ... a string doesn't have to be very far off dead center for this style of pickup to lose its voice and dynamics (something eliminated with a blade style pickup, and significantly reduced in a dual pole style pickup)  ... for this to work for my custom basses, I have created a CAD model for each bridge/nut width/scale combination so I can precisely specify where each pole piece needs to be placed for a perfect match. stock off the shelf SCPB pickups didn't cut it for me due to poor alignment that resulted in a very anemic sound compared to what properly aligned poles will get you. it'll also serve you to know exactly where the pickup needs to be placed

- have your SCPB pickup in-hand before routing the pickup cavity. the pocket dimensions for a 4-string a reasonably universal, but the 5-string offerings vary from manufacturer to manufacturer


- properly selecting your strings and gauge, and then ensuring you have a killer set-up will negate any significant differences between 34" and 35" scale IME. I hear many people complain out 34" scale basses being 'floppy', and yet I get great compliments on my 33" scale bass as being the most comfortable 35" scale bass they have played. when I inquire as to how they know it's a 35" scale it always comes back to how the B-string feels and sounds ... and they're always disbelieving that it's a 33" scale until I break out the tape measure and explain string selection and set-ups. the big plus for a 34" scale is that it's easier on your fretting hand, something to consider even if you have large hands like I do

all the best,

R

 

[koshersteel]

for a 5 string bass I would go with a 35" scale length. That low B will need all the extra tension that it can get to prevent muddiness. I just don't think a 34" scale length will be as clear. That is of course, unless you enjoy that sort of thing...

 

[AndyG]

I know Bartolini makes a 5 string P pickup that fits into a standard pickup rout.  The Nordstrom (spelling?) 5 string P pickup is longer on the bass side than on the treble side, and therefore requires a special rout.  Bartolini's design just has the pole pieces (a bar, actually) longer on the bass side, but hidden by the shell.

 

[SkuttleFunk]

absolutely, definitely, and totally untrue that a 34" scale B-string is always floppy. as I said previously in many, many threads it's all about string selection and set-up. not wanting to fight, but this nonesense about 34" always being floppy is simply uninformed myths. believe me, as a builder who has a solid reputation for high-end basses I would not jeopardize my reputation by building 34" scale instruments if this myth was instead a fact


and also to clear-up an incorrect statement - standard Nordstrand 5-string P-bass pickups are not unequal sizes. they do fit into a standard 4-string pickup route. I have built and installed many of these, and I know this for first-hand personal experience

all the best,

R

 

[AndyG]

and also to clear-up an incorrect statement - standard Nordstrand 5-string P-bass pickups are not unequal sizes. they do fit into a standard 4-string pickup route. I have built and installed many of these, and I know this for first-hand personal experience
R

While I do not doubt you, which model?  All of the Nordstrand 5 string P pickups I've ever seen were longer on the bass side.

The other reason I'd like to know ... I'm planning my own 5-string build, and I am very interested in trying the Nordstrand ....
Thanx for the info!

 

[Wyliee]

absolutely, definitely, and totally untrue that a 34" scale B-string is always floppy. as I said previously in many, many threads it's all about string selection and set-up. not wanting to fight, but this nonesense about 34" always being floppy is simply uninformed myths. believe me, as a builder who has a solid reputation for high-end basses I would not jeopardize my reputation by building 34" scale instruments if this myth was instead a fact

I'd have to lean in Rod's direction on this as well.  I am becoming more and more convinced proper setup, particularly string break angle and clean contact at nut and bridge, is key in getting good sustain.  I've read similar conclusions from other high end builders (Joe Zon for example) as well.  

Listen to some of the Fodera endorsing artists.  Matt Garrison and Tony Grey both play 33" scale basses and their low B tone does not suffer.

BTW, a 5 string P rout is the same as a 4 string P rout.  (Yes, it works!)

 

[AprioriMark]

Thanks for all the advice, guys.  I'm looking forward to moving to a 5 string after 20 years on 4 strings.  I am happy that it will be a Warmoth.

-Mark

 

[SkuttleFunk]

and also to clear-up an incorrect statement - standard Nordstrand 5-string P-bass pickups are not unequal sizes. they do fit into a standard 4-string pickup route. I have built and installed many of these, and I know this for first-hand personal experience
R

While I do not doubt you, which model?  All of the Nordstrand 5 string P pickups I've ever seen were longer on the bass side.

The other reason I'd like to know ... I'm planning my own 5-string build, and I am very interested in trying the Nordstrand ....
Thanx for the info!

Here's an image of the last VRB-P5 to leave my shop. It features a stock Nordstrand NP-5 pickup, and both pickup covers are identical in size

Here's a close-up image from the Nordstrand site

the pickup cavity for this 5-string 'set' is the same as for the standard 4-string. it will support an 18mm bridge spacing, but IMO utilizing this stock pickup for a 19mm spaced bridge would be a stretch if you use the traditional pickup location.

in the image of my VRB-P5 it's the extra fret that leaves the visual impression that this pickup is placed closer to the neck than it would be on a standard P


I love this particular pickup, and give Nordstrand a hugh +1 on getting this to sound right. Feel welcome to shoot me a PM or e-mail if you have specific questions you'd prefer not to ask in a public forum ...

all the best,

R

 

[Cagey]

absolutely, definitely, and totally untrue that a 34" scale B-string is always floppy. as I said previously in many, many threads it's all about string selection and set-up. not wanting to fight, but this nonesense about 34" always being floppy is simply uninformed myths. believe me, as a builder who has a solid reputation for high-end basses I would not jeopardize my reputation by building 34" scale instruments if this myth was instead a fact

I've read that "floppy B" business before and wondered what they were talking about. I have a 5 string here w/ a 34" scale length, and I never thought the B was floppy at all. At least, not any floppier than I'd expect a bass string to be, being primarily a guitar player. It's a thick little rascal, so it has a bit more inertia than you might expect. I could imagine a slap player feeling/hearing a difference. But, generally speaking, the string speaks the way you'd expect it to.