Strat Head style

[AGWAN]

 

[Strat Avenger]

I must admit however, that a longer string will stretch more than a shorter one. If I lock down my Floyd Rose nut, the string seems to require more effort to bend than if I unlock it.

There is no difference in tension (13.13 pounds on the high-E), but there is more string to stretch. It's really just a perception, because more of a bend will be required without the nut locked to achieve the same note.

 

[Cagey]

I must admit however, that a longer string will stretch more than a shorter one. If I lock down my Floyd Rose nut, the string seems to require more effort to bend than if I unlock it.

You admit it? Whaddaya, feeling guilty? You can't "admit" to physics. They're immutable laws that are in play whether you like them or not. That's like saying "I admit, gravity works well on Tuesdays" <grin>

Locking down your bridge will result in a stiffer feel to the strings, because the bridge doesn't give any more. But, you still have to stretch the string to the appropriate tension in order to get it to vibrate at a given frequency.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

Why does turrning the tuning key a half turn break a string if a nut is locked but doesn't if the nut isn't locked?  Afterall, the string length doesn't matter and they are the same tension and extra string doesn't add reserve springiness waiting there to be taken advatage of.

Because you're trying to stretch a very short string beyond it's tensile strength. You'd find that at the point it breaks, it might be at 20lbs or so, when it's only good for maybe 18. The rest of the string doesn't count because the nut's locked and it's effectively the endpoint of the string.

Exactly!  Thankyou!  A longer string does have more string to stretch even when it still takes the same lbs. of pressure to break it.  That's why a longer string (outside of the bridge and nut with shallow breakover angle) at the same pitch and scale length bends easier.  The question I posed that you quoted didn't need answering, it was rhetorical.  We both know the answer.  It was to illustrate a shorter string length, blah blah blah.

 

[Cagey]

<sigh> I'm going to have to figure out how to build a test fixture on the cheap. I've got an oscilloscope and meters and computers and spare pickups/tuners, along with a well-equipped shop to build just about anything I want. I just gotta figure out how to get an appropriate load cell and mounting scheme to gather data from. Then I gotta find somebody who wants to buy an article on the findings. Just wait.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

If it's anything like this has been, and I am joking, I wouldn't read it.  If I understood it, I'd be told I didn't understand it and then be given a long explanation that mirrors what I said of why I don't understand it.  Again, I am joking.  :icon_jokercolor:

 

[Cagey]

Not everybody can see/understand physical and mathematical laws in action in their heads, so a test fixture where you can get actual data with pictures showing reality is worth boatloads of explanation, and usually ends most arguments with all but the very religious and those who use Apple computers <grin>

 

[Mor Paul]

Here's my thoughts....

The pitch is dictated by the mass and tension in the vibrating length. Now, we assume that there is no friction at the nut, and that tensions are equal...

If the string is like this, (unbent)
____________________
with the nut, vibrating length, and bridge
___ ______________ __

an inch of bending in the vibrating length will increase the total tension, raising the pitch. That force is distributed among the vibrating -and- nonvibrating lengths. While an inch of push is the same resistance no matter what the nonvibrating length is, it will not require the same amount of force. The same amount of force will require a lot more force to bend the string to to the tension needed for the next pitch if the nonvibrating length is significantly higher.

Something like that, throw pythagorean's theorem in there too, and some other crap.

 

[Disco Scottie]

 

[AGWAN]

HAHAHAHA!

 

[Strat Avenger]

I must admit however, that a longer string will stretch more than a shorter one. If I lock down my Floyd Rose nut, the string seems to require more effort to bend than if I unlock it.

You admit it? Whaddaya, feeling guilty? You can't "admit" to physics. They're immutable laws that are in play whether you like them or not. That's like saying "I admit, gravity works well on Tuesdays" <grin>

Locking down your bridge will result in a stiffer feel to the strings, because the bridge doesn't give any more. But, you still have to stretch the string to the appropriate tension in order to get it to vibrate at a given frequency.

Hey, quit pickin' on me!  :laughing7:

 

[Cagey]

Hey, quit pickin' on me!   :laughing7:

Hehe! Don't feel bad. I haven't singled you out for punishment. The laws of physics tend to do that on their own. For some reason, a lot of people think they can argue them, as if they're arbitrary, debatable or capricious like religion or politics. Causes a lot of accidents.

 

[Strat Avenger]

Hey, quit pickin' on me!   :laughing7:

Hehe! Don't feel bad. I haven't singled you out for punishment. The laws of physics tend to do that on their own. For some reason, a lot of people think they can argue them, as if they're arbitrary, debatable or capricious like religion or politics. Causes a lot of accidents.

I know, and I was taking your side in the debate...

 

[Cagey]

Oh. Ok, good. That'll help me in my gerrymandering <grin>

 

[Mor Paul]

Oh, btw, if I'm wrong on what I said up there, please correct me. I've had mixed thoughts on this topic, and both sides of the argument, IMO, make good points. My current thoughts are that it takes the same amount of force to move the string to the desired pitch, no matter what the non-vibrating string length is, but longer non-vibrating lengths (assuming frictionless nuts, saddles, etc...) will require more distance (bend size) to get to the same pitch, and that *may* cause it to have a "looser" feel. I'd love to do the math and such, but I don't know exactly how. I've got some ideas, though. Cagey or anyone else... counterpoint? And it could be through email, pm, or new thread if we don't want to continue hijacking

 

[richship]

Locking down your bridge will result in a stiffer feel to the strings, because the bridge doesn't give any more. But, you still have to stretch the string to the appropriate tension in order to get it to vibrate at a given frequency.

And locking down your nut will result in a stiffer feel because there is no extra give from the tension increase being spread over a longer string.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

FWIW, the term physics has been thrown around and used to say whose right or wrong, but other than the frequency and gauge of a high E, I haven't seen any physical concepts or theories laid down.  Just the usual, "that's physics and I'm right."  Also, there hasn't really been 2 sides.  Just the same side miscomunicated.