Soloist vs Strat, why are soloists so light?

[aarontunes]

Now I see why guitar players own more than one guitar. There are just so many options that are interesting.

Nailed it!  :bananaguitar:

 

[WindsurfMaui]

First I want to thank everyone who helped on this thread and some of the other threads I've posted questions on. I started thinking I would buy a Strat body but now after consideration I think a flat top Swamp ash Soloist body is a better fit as well as a better buy. It is lighter, it comes with the neck contour standard  and there are many one piece bodies available. The only change I might make is to cut off 1/2 inch of the longer horn and then sand it to a more Strat shape rounded on top and the front edges. This seems to make more sense to me than going with the standard Strat body. The last question I have and it is mostly rhetorical is whether to go with a 24 fret neck. I have no big desire for 24 frets but it seems with the deeper contours the 24 fret is the natural fit. What do you guys think? Any strong feels one way or the other on a 24 fret neck?

 

[Cagey]

Regardless of whether you need to hit the top of the second octave, it may be (and quite likely is) that a 24 fret neck makes more sense in the mind. Once you get past the 12th fret, your head just says "it's the same neck, with tighter spacing on the frets. Go have fun." I know that's still true with necks with less frets, but... nothing. It's probably just me. Seems like a 24 fret neck is two fretboards, while a 21/22 fret neck is...different.

What I would question more is shortening that upper horn. The only reason it exists in the first place is not style, it's so there's an appropriate place to put a strap hanger. While it looks longer than usual on the soloist, it's really not. It's the deeper cut that makes it look longer. The endpoint is the same as with a Strat. It needs to be there so the guitar hangs right. Move it back, and you could run into balance problems where the neck wants to "dive" on you, or if not that, then the whole thing just feels funny. But, I'm just guessing (and probably exaggerating).

I would still do the Soloist - it's probably the most badass body extant. It has all the qualities of a Strat plus increased fret access. What could possibly be wrong with that? Just leave the horn alone.

 

[Logrinn]

I'm with Cagey. I guessing that if you'd make that upper horn shorter you might end up with something you don't like in the end. And then you can't put it back.

When I compare the two bodies, the strat and the solist, I always feel the strat is the one that needs a little something to look better. And the soloist has that. That shape is the perfect one. The strat looks more "old-fashioned" to me. Like an old car compared to a modern sleek sport car.

 

[Cagey]

Perzactly. The soloist is a "modern" Strat. Streamlined. Sharp. Nice. And yet, still a Strat.

 

[timezon3]

I love my Warmoth Strat, but if I were to do it all over again (and hopefully someday I will ) I would also go soloist with 24-fret neck.  I'm not a vintage purist, I just want the best guitar, and I think that's well on the way.

TZ

 

[swarfrat]

Soloists are vintage now...

 

[aarontunes]

Soloists are vintage now...

Don't tell that to the TGP crowd.
If you refer to anything there that was not made between 54 and 64 as "vintage", they will come unhinged on you.  :icon_biggrin:
Oh....and also....80's FOREVER!!!11!!!  :headbanging: :headbang1: arty07: :guitarplayer2: :headbang4:

 

[swarfrat]

My 5yo saw a VW beetle once and said "Look dad! An old timey car!" I turned expecting to see a Bel Air, Model-T or something. No son aaahhh never mind I guess you're right.

 

[Cagey]

Kinda ageless, those beetles. My dad bought one in '58 and we drove that thing forever. I think it was mid '70s before he finally had to break down and replace it. Poor thing was beat to death.

 

[mayfly]

Kinda ageless, those beetles. My dad bought one in '58 and we drove that thing forever. I think it was mid '70s before he finally had to break down and replace it. Poor thing was beat to death.

~15 years out of a Beetle?  Cool.  I'm aiming to get about the same out of my MkIV Golf.  11 years and counting...

 

[rgand]

Kinda ageless, those beetles. My dad bought one in '58 and we drove that thing forever. I think it was mid '70s before he finally had to break down and replace it. Poor thing was beat to death.

~15 years out of a Beetle?  Cool.  I'm aiming to get about the same out of my MkIV Golf.  11 years and counting...

I drove a 1970 VW for well over 250,000 miles. In the day, that was unheard of. Those things just kept going unless you sucked a valve seat shifting up as you went over the crest of a hill after a long hard climb.

 

[swarfrat]

Plus, there was always JC Whitney.... same pocket knife. Three new handles and two new blades. If they just sold a VIN plate you could build one from scratch. For years I wanted to restore / soup up a Karmann Ghia. Then I realized, I don't fix stuff on my car when it breaks, there's no way I'm going to spend 2000 hrs welding, grinding and painting an old car.

http://www.jcwhitney.com/volkswagen

 

[WindsurfMaui]

Regardless of whether you need to hit the top of the second octave, it may be (and quite likely is) that a 24 fret neck makes more sense in the mind. Once you get past the 12th fret, your head just says "it's the same neck, with tighter spacing on the frets. Go have fun." I know that's still true with necks with less frets, but... nothing. It's probably just me. Seems like a 24 fret neck is two fretboards, while a 21/22 fret neck is...different.

What I would question more is shortening that upper horn. The only reason it exists in the first place is not style, it's so there's an appropriate place to put a strap hanger. While it looks longer than usual on the soloist, it's really not. It's the deeper cut that makes it look longer. The endpoint is the same as with a Strat. It needs to be there so the guitar hangs right. Move it back, and you could run into balance problems where the neck wants to "dive" on you, or if not that, then the whole thing just feels funny. But, I'm just guessing (and probably exaggerating).

I would still do the Soloist - it's probably the most badass body extant. It has all the qualities of a Strat plus increased fret access. What could possibly be wrong with that? Just leave the horn alone.

I want to thank everyone again your comments have helped me think through my own custom ideas. Part of my problem is I like a variety of different things and they all can't and should be on one guitar as the "perfect" guitar. So if I had unlimited money I would build a dozen different guitars. That said I do prefer the "Strat" shape in general which I include the soloist. I think if I had plenty of money I would buy a chambered arch top Soloist have the two horns shortened a little so they don't look longer than the Strat horns, I would also take off a little of the left and right side of the body at the widest part and maybe even thin the body top to bottom all to reduce wight so it is in the sub 3lb area. I would add the .720 neck pocket feature and maybe even take a little off the neck heel top to bottom so the neck heel is flatter. Put on this flatter heel 24 fret neck so the total guitar is as light as possible.

However I don't have unlimited money so what I think I will do is buy a very light One piece Soloist Swamp ash unfinished body.  I will try to remove a little of the length of the long horn, maybe both so they seem more in proportion to the original Strat proportions  (I understand this may change the way the guitar hangs on my body.) Then I will sand off a little of both sides of the body at it's widest part to take a little of that round bottom look off the guitar to both lighten it up as well. (I understand I have to be careful not to weaken the wall of the rear routed control chamber.) Hopefully this will bring the guitar back into proportion and make it look a little slimmer plus maybe take it to sub 3lb weight. Then I will add a finish.

One of the most impressive inexpensive guitars I have seen lately is the Ibanez SA160QM. This is a mahogany and maple carved top that is super thin. The neck pocket and neck heel depth are both reduced so that there is no need for a heel contour. This neck pocket and heel reminds me of a PRS CE bolt on. It is very impressive. The whole guitar is very light. I also like the way they do the cable connection on the top face. The only two things I don't like about this guitar is the neck profile, I prefer a boatneck shape and I prefer a maple fingerboard not rosewood. I would buy one and put on a Warmoth replacement neck except the Warmoth neck heel is just too deep for this guitar body. And I don't have the equipment to shave off a few millimeters of the neck heel and have it be perfectly flat. Of course, I'm not saying I would keep the pickups but the overall guitar body is quite impressive. So instead I will try to shape a flat top Soloist to kind of mimic this Ibanez.

 

[Cagey]

There exists a "favorite" guitar, but not a "perfect" one. That's why you see many players with multiple instruments. It's not lust, it's need.

You may want to consider a 7/8 scale Strat.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

It's all about the right tool for the job.
A Strat for this, a Les Paul for that, etc....

That's why you don't just turn a Phillips head screwdriver on it's side to turn a flathead screw.

 

[aarontunes]

There exists a "favorite" guitar, but not a "perfect" one. That's why you see many players with multiple instruments. It's not lust, it's need.

You may want to consider a 7/8 scale Strat.

Yep. It's about the right tool for the right job. Sort of like hammers. They all kind of do the same thing, but there are differences between a ball peen, a claw, an upholstery, a fretting, a dead-blow, a finishing, a prospecting, a roofing, and a sledge, that make them better-suited for their respective jobs.

Sure...you can use one for everything. It's possible. But when you have the right one for what you're doing, it's so much easier, and the end result finer.

 

[WindsurfMaui]

OK it takes my mind longer than most to figure out stuff. For the present build I'll have to keep costs down so I will buy a Soloist and do some additional chopping and sanding. But I'm planning a future build where I want to make a 7/8 Soloist but one that doesn't limit it to a 24 3/4 conversion neck. My idea is to take a Soloist and chop off the areas in the traditional 7/8 conversion except for the changes to the neck pocket and then do the rear route and make it compatible with a 24 fret neck.  If I start with a Soloist that weighs about 3lbs 4ozs then after the 7/8 adjustment and the rear routing pick ups and controls I suspect the weight before I add all the pots and Trem the basic body will weigh in about 2 1/2 lbs.

Of course it will be difficult to make the 24 fret conversion and push the rear control cavity all together into the middle of the guitar, and I'm sure Warmoth won't want to do it at any price because it is a rather strange request just to lose a little more body weight. But if I could create my own design this would be it. A slightly smaller much lighter guitar body. I guess I could come at it from the 7/8 Strat body as long as they didn't reduce the neck pocket area so it wasn't limited to a 24 3/4 conversion neck and then add the 24 fret adjustment. And then do the additional scoop to get to the lower frets.I just like the idea of an extremely light guitar body.

 

[stratamania]

The 7/8 Strat and Tele bodies using a 24 3/4" scale are completely different to conversion necks. Trying to alter the heel pocket won't work.

The key differences are the distance between nut and bridge for scale length everything works around this datum, regardless of what you build or convert. You simply cannot just mix and match without taking these facts into account.

Re your current idea of adjusting the shape of a Soloist body, if you do this make sure you order a solid and not a chambered body.

Your other alternative is to order a body blank, with the heel, pickup and bridge rout done and cut the other shape yourself.

For your first build keeping costs down and going with the Soloist perhaps try putting it together first to see how it works for you before chopping it.

 

[WindsurfMaui]

The 7/8 Strat and Tele bodies using a 24 3/4" scale are completely different to conversion necks. Trying to alter the heel pocket won't work.

The key differences are the distance between nut and bridge for scale length everything works around this datum, regardless of what you build or convert. You simply cannot just mix and match without taking these facts into account.

Re your current idea of adjusting the shape of a Soloist body, if you do this make sure you order a solid and not a chambered body.

Your other alternative is to order a body blank, with the heel, pickup and bridge rout done and cut the other shape yourself.

For your first build keeping costs down and going with the Soloist perhaps try putting it together first to see how it works for you before chopping it.

Hello Stratmania:

So your saying it is where Warmoth drills the bridge on the 7/8 strat and not the fact that they shave off part of the heel pocket that determines whether it will take the 24 fret 25 1/2 inch scale neck. Good to know.

So yes I guess I should  use the Soloist as a starting point and see (for a future build) if Warmoth can/will , before they drill the rear route chamber, take off some of the sides and far end of the body as they do in the 7/8 Strat.  Then adjust the pick up layout for the 24 fret neck over hang. They probably don't want to get into this much customization . And I don't really want o spend a lot of money on this experiment so this build may not happen but if I had unlimited funds I definitely would try this 7/8 Soloist.

I will buy an in stock Soloist body very soon and will sand off some additional wood plus reduce the size of the horns trying to get the horns and body to have the same proportions as a regular Strat. And yes I will go slowly and attach the neck before chopping off any of the body so see how it feels first. That is a good suggestion. Personally as the cost of wood increases ad as pick ups and racks define more and more of the tone I think small body regular sized neck guitars are the wave of the future. Why carry a 7 lb guitar when you can carry a 4 pound one?  :headbang: