Soloist vs Strat, why are soloists so light?

[WindsurfMaui]

Strat vs Soloists. Why are the Soloist flat top bodies so light?

I really like Strats. I am getting ready to buy a Strat Swamp Ash body unfinished and do the finishing myself. I had been comparing the solid vs the chambered but most of the chambered Strats are the same weight as the solid bodies so I'm not sure why chambered makes a difference. But then I noticed the Soloist unfinished flat top bodies  and I see they are considerably lighter than a Strat. Why is that? Are they smaller in overall dimension? Are they thinner? Does anyone have the stats on a Soloist?

Is there any reason I can't buy a flat top soloist and put the same Strat Warmoth neck , pick ups and Fender American Tremolo bridge on a soloist and end up with basically the same guitar as a Strat but lighter? What would be the disadvantages, if any?

I like Strats. I admit a small affair with a PRS bolt on  and at one point I thought I would build a VIP  but then I realized that with Warmoth I can pretty much get anything I want in a Strat shape (which I prefer). So instead of a VIP mahogany with maple top I can do the same with a Strat style body. And if I really want I can get a Gibson conversion 24 3/4 neck if I want the mahogany Strat to have humbuckers and sound more like a PRS. AND the best part is that I really prefer a boatneck profile so whatever I make, Strat, Soloist, PRS copy in a Strat body I can make them all with the Boatneck profile. So I was about to buy an Ash Strat when I see how light the Soloist is and wonder why not just buy an Ash Soloist instead. But why so light weight? Is it just the extra tummy contour and the neck heel contour?

There is one issue that does concern me and that is the fact that as a rear route there will be no pickguard and so the neck and fretboard will be quite high off the body.  Has anyone matched a Soloist with a Strat neck? Without the "720" neck pocket adjustment will the neck be sitting way too high?

Thanks for the help

 

[Hendrix]

Soloist body is smaller than other body.

http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=26545.msg380818#msg380818

 

[Cagey]

Strat and Soloist bodies are almost identical dimensionally, although given exactly identical pieces of wood to start with (nearly impossible), I would expect the Soloist to weigh slightly less. Not much, though. Maybe a couple ounces. The Soloist has deeper cutaways for improved access to the upper frets, and the whole body is maybe 1/2" shorter overall, and the roundover on the edges of the Soloist have a slightly tighter radius to them.

Basically, a Soloist is a Strat with a slightly more "modern" appearance. Overall, given a statistically large enough population, I'd expect them to weigh the same within a margin of error. Weight shouldn't be a consideration, is what I'm saying.

But, wood is inconsistent stuff whose density can vary substantially even from the same tree. For example, I have an Alder Jazzmaster body here that isn't even chambered, yet it only weighs 3lb 11oz. That's freakishly light for that body style. Should be 5lbs+. Speaking of Jazzmasters, there are a couple in the builder right now, one made of black Korina that's only 3lbs 13oz, and one of roasted Swamp Ash at 3lbs 8oz (neither are chambered), and there again, those should be 5lbs+. Chambering typically saves about 25%, but if it was an unusually heavy piece to start with, those savings may just bring the body back to a practical weight rather than make it super light. For example, Walnut's awfully pretty, but it would be a killer to hang around your neck for very long if you didn't chamber the body.

You can definitely put Strat necks on Soloist bodies. In fact, you can put the vast majority of necks Warmoth makes on the vast majority of their bodies. The heels/pockets are all basically the same. There are a couple instances where you have to watch the scale length, but that doesn't involve the heel/pocket.

One of my Soloists is a carved top, so no pickguard. The fretboard overhang sits above the body, but the gap is only .095" so it's not like there's a gaping maw sitting there screaming for attention. It almost has to be pointed out to be noticed. The 720 mod will get rid of that gap if it's going to  bother you, and shouldn't affect your bridge choice unless you're going to use something unusually tall like a TOM.

 

[WindsurfMaui]

The reason I noticed the weight difference is the Strat swamp ash unfinished bodies I have looking at go from 3lb 6oz to 4lb 8oz with the most around 4lbs. While the Soloist swamp ash unfinished bodies are from 3lb 1oz to 4lb 2oz with the majority around 3lb 4oz. That is about 1/2 pound lighter on average. Even the Alder bodies are around 3lb 8oz. That is a pretty large weight savings for solid bodies that are generally the same size.

Personally I like the Strat look better but to save 1/2 pound I could go with a Soloist and maybe round some of the edges, particularly the horn edge, and make the edges softer, rounder which would save even more weight before I finish it.

Warmoth also has the neck heel contour on many of these unfinished bodies which I think is good but I wonder if the neck heel contour precludes doing the 720 neck depth adjustment ? I would think both of these adjustments together would leave the neck pocket pretty thin at the top.

In any event I have to give the Soloist some serious consideration as my base body shape. Of course if I were going for a maple capped body the Strats are cheaper than the maple capped carved top Soloists. It's nice to have so many options available to choose from. :headbang1:

 

[aarontunes]

Regarding the Heel Contour: that is an option we usually do as a matter of course on rear-routed bodies. That's why it's on all Soloists bodies "automatically". If you look at Strat bodies, you will see that generally the top routed bodies don't have it, but the rear-routed ones do.

The Heel Contour does not preclude the 720 mod.

 

[aarontunes]

The Soloist is my favorite Warmoth body shape. I would opt for it over a Strat any day of the week.

And yes, they are generally lighter. Compared to a Strat body they have a smaller perimeter shape, deeper cutaways, deeper body contours, and almost always a heel contour, all of which mean less wood and less weight.

 

[Ivandrov]

Only other thing to consider from Warmoth is that chambering doesn't seem to be available for the soloist through the online builder. Don't know if you can call and ask for it to be done. But, with that in mind, a chambered strat will be lighter than a soloist.

 

[WindsurfMaui]

Only other thing to consider from Warmoth is that chambering doesn't seem to be available for the soloist through the online builder. Don't know if you can call and ask for it to be done. But, with that in mind, a chambered strat will be lighter than a soloist.

Actually, generally I'm not seeing chambered Strats lighter than Soloists. The chambered Strats are about the same weight as a solid Strat, in Swamp ash unfinished. But that brings up another point. The chambered swamp ash Strats are about the same weight as the solid swamp ash strats so that must mean the chambered Strats have a denser wood. I assume a denser wood even at the same weight must mean more sustain, resonance?

The only negative for me about the Soloist is that my plan for this build was to build a front route Strat and play mix and match with a variety of pick guards each with different pickups. But I am being sorely tempted to abandon that plan and just buy a swamp ash Soloist, round off some of the edges around the horns and put on a dye finish.

 

[WindsurfMaui]

I haven't really looked at the 7/8 Strats. They would be lighter but I assume they aren't a real solution since they don't have the additional features of the Soloist and there pickguards are a different size so although they would be lighter than the standard Strat they add complications and don't add features.

 

[TBurst Std]

I may be wrong, but it seems business wise.
Regarding showcase items:
As the W encounters heavier body blanks, they may choose those for clambering. That would explain largely what you are seeing. 
An advantage to 7/8? Native 24
Fret neck.  If that has no value, then ignore. 
Not sure if you can now, but you use
to be able to specify LW at an upcharge. If you did that then ordered chambered, I’d call to confirm, but you should end up quite LW.

 

[TBurst Std]

I should add, I believe the W applies (or did so) the LW option at the body blank level.  AA, can you contribute?

 

[aarontunes]

Yes, you can call in and request a light-weight body on a custom build. I believe the upcharge is $40.

What that means is that when they choose a blank to cut your body from, they will choose from among the lightest weight blanks available at that time, for the species you request.

It does not guarantee that your completed body will hit a certain weight threshold. However, you can usually get a general idea of what it might weigh by looking at the weight range in the showcase for your particular body style and wood species.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

I prefer the soloist to the 7/8 strats as they soloists have a deeper cutaway by default, so if you opt for the 24 ft extension, and the 24 fret neck re-pos, the access is far better than the 7/8 strat.

 

[swarfrat]

There's probably a higher than random statistical correlation of basswood and the soloist body shape as well. It doesn't make an individual body lighter if it's not basswood, but it can contribute to the perception.

 

[TBurst Std]

Yes, you can call in and request a light-weight body on a custom build. I believe the upcharge is $40.

What that means is that when they choose a blank to cut your body from, they will choose from among the lightest weight blanks available at that time, for the species you request.

It does not guarantee that your completed body will hit a certain weight threshold. However, you can usually get a general idea of what it might weigh by looking at the weight range in the showcase for your particular body style and wood species.

Many thanks.
That means if you pick a lighter wood, choose the LW option upgrade, the option chambered, you will pretty much end up with the lightest option available.

 

[Ivandrov]

Only other thing to consider from Warmoth is that chambering doesn't seem to be available for the soloist through the online builder. Don't know if you can call and ask for it to be done. But, with that in mind, a chambered strat will be lighter than a soloist.

Actually, generally I'm not seeing chambered Strats lighter than Soloists. The chambered Strats are about the same weight as a solid Strat, in Swamp ash unfinished. But that brings up another point. The chambered swamp ash Strats are about the same weight as the solid swamp ash strats so that must mean the chambered Strats have a denser wood. I assume a denser wood even at the same weight must mean more sustain, resonance?

The only negative for me about the Soloist is that my plan for this build was to build a front route Strat and play mix and match with a variety of pick guards each with different pickups. But I am being sorely tempted to abandon that plan and just buy a swamp ash Soloist, round off some of the edges around the horns and put on a dye finish.

That's without considering what density wood made those strats and soloists. As others have said, you can request a lightweight body to be chambered.

 

[WindsurfMaui]

I have been looking primarily at Swamp ash bodies but also some alders. So let me ask the question if two Swamp Ash bodies are the same weight and one is chambered and the other solid does it follow that the chambered body wood must be denser and so more resonant and have longer sustain?

 

[aarontunes]

No. You're over-thinking it.

Tone characterizations for wood, hardware, nut material, weight, strings, etc, etc, etc, are accurate in only the most general sense. There is no formula you can follow that's going to give you quantifiable, predictable results for tone, sustain, or any other acoustic property.

Make your best guess, buy what you like, put it all together, and see what you've got. As long as you stay close to tried and true woods and combinations of woods, there's very little you can do that is going to be terrible.

 

[aarontunes]

Here's another way of looking at it: I have two Les Paul Classics. One is solid, and one is chambered. The former weighs almost 9lbs, the latter 6.7lbs. Acoustically I can easily hear and feel the difference.

Plug them in and I would be hard-pressed to tell them apart in a blind test, listening to someone else playing them. They sound essentially identical.

 

[WindsurfMaui]

No. You're over-thinking it.

Tone characterizations for wood, hardware, nut material, weight, strings, etc, etc, etc, are accurate in only the most general sense. There is no formula you can follow that's going to give you quantifiable, predictable results for tone, sustain, or any other acoustic property.

Make your best guess, buy what you like, put it all together, and see what you've got. As long as you stay close to tried and true woods and combinations of woods, there's very little you can do that is going to be terrible.

That is interesting. So two guitar bodies of the same material, same weight (chambered or solid) and same price means that I should choose my personal preference. Interesting.

I have been watching a few unfinished Strat swamp ash bodies. One is very light multi piece body and another is a slightly heavier one piece body. Although I know that there is nothing wrong with a multi piece body, and I like that it is 1/2 lb lighter, but  I am still drawn to the slightly heavier one piece body. I think my final choice will be which has a wilder grain pattern since I want to highlight the grain and leave the rest of the body the natural ash color. But I am still drawn to the one piece body. That is unless I go Soloist instead of Strat. Now I see why guitar players own more than one guitar. There are just so many options that are interesting.