Volitions Advocate
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Leonard Nimoy said on SNL to all the hardcore trekkie fans that if you don't watch it you're a dickhead. *shrug*
from spock himself.
from spock himself.
So... I'm not the only Trekkie am I?
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Galaxy_Stranger
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Ever since the movie came out, I've seen people talk about it online. When "new" fans don't like what the original fans have to say about the movie, most of the time they get rude and talk about the original fans as being "haters", etc. and they immediately talk about how bad everything about Trek has been up until this movie. I'd like to try to articulate why TOS fans have a problem with this film - and it's not all of them.
In the interests of full disclosure - I'm a pretty hardcore fan. I grew up with Trek in syndication. My entire family would watch it before dinner...basically because that's all there was to do without Internet porn and 500 channels of garbage. Even my grandparents enjoyed the show. They were both English teachers and saw and appreciated what the writers were doing with the show. So, I'm a fan, but I don't walk around speaking Klingon or quoting everything.
The first thing I'd like people to understand is that the vast majority of Trek fans aren't the drooling retards they show on TV all the time. Those are the people who just like to dress up whenever they can and dream about having sex with Picard. They don't understand plot or story substance either. Now, let me quote Orpheo.
Orpheo said:
This is exactly the problem that I had with the new film. People who aren't into Trek think that this movie was filled with all kinds of new and interesting material. Orpheo hinted at what JJ Abrams did to the movie, as with all his projects: He sits down and makes a list of every superficial piece of minutiae that he thinks aforementioned retard fans demand to see in a Trek movie. He makes that list and he arranges it into something that resembles a plot. To most people, it's just another movie - maybe even a good one. But to people like me, it was just a LOOOOONG list of 40 year old Star Trek cliches. There was no new material in this film. EVERYTHING was an element taken from some other part of the franchise, down to the plot and the dialogue - even the uniforms. Everything. This is called pandering to the nostalgia of the audience. He did exactly the same thing to Transformers.
Tfarny said:
Alternate Timelines ARE a cop-out. (And just about every freaking TNG, DS9 and Voyager episode is about time travel...) This is significant because it points out that Paramount set out to kill off everything about the original franchise - and get me to pay them for it. This film was one last middle finger to the fans. We drank the Kool-Aid. And now they're done with us. As soon as they started production and they said, "Oh, this won't break any Canon material", the FIRST thing out of my mouth was "Alternate Timeline". The VERY first thing. WAY too predictable.
Hannagh said:
My ultimate point is that if they wanted to make a 2 hour piece of crap to make money off of - why didn't they just call it "Lost" or "Heroes"?
</rant>
In the interests of full disclosure - I'm a pretty hardcore fan. I grew up with Trek in syndication. My entire family would watch it before dinner...basically because that's all there was to do without Internet porn and 500 channels of garbage. Even my grandparents enjoyed the show. They were both English teachers and saw and appreciated what the writers were doing with the show. So, I'm a fan, but I don't walk around speaking Klingon or quoting everything.
The first thing I'd like people to understand is that the vast majority of Trek fans aren't the drooling retards they show on TV all the time. Those are the people who just like to dress up whenever they can and dream about having sex with Picard. They don't understand plot or story substance either. Now, let me quote Orpheo.
Orpheo said:
This is exactly the problem that I had with the new film. People who aren't into Trek think that this movie was filled with all kinds of new and interesting material. Orpheo hinted at what JJ Abrams did to the movie, as with all his projects: He sits down and makes a list of every superficial piece of minutiae that he thinks aforementioned retard fans demand to see in a Trek movie. He makes that list and he arranges it into something that resembles a plot. To most people, it's just another movie - maybe even a good one. But to people like me, it was just a LOOOOONG list of 40 year old Star Trek cliches. There was no new material in this film. EVERYTHING was an element taken from some other part of the franchise, down to the plot and the dialogue - even the uniforms. Everything. This is called pandering to the nostalgia of the audience. He did exactly the same thing to Transformers.
Tfarny said:
Alternate Timelines ARE a cop-out. (And just about every freaking TNG, DS9 and Voyager episode is about time travel...) This is significant because it points out that Paramount set out to kill off everything about the original franchise - and get me to pay them for it. This film was one last middle finger to the fans. We drank the Kool-Aid. And now they're done with us. As soon as they started production and they said, "Oh, this won't break any Canon material", the FIRST thing out of my mouth was "Alternate Timeline". The VERY first thing. WAY too predictable.
Hannagh said:
You ask that question because you don't know how to write. And neither does JJ Abrams. This is the thinking that has simply destroyed television and Hollywood. With just a little care you can make a film that, (heaven forbid), EVERYONE might enjoy. The Wrath of Khan was incredibly popular. The whole franchise was saved by a guy who barely even knew what Trek was. It was a great film with lots of themes, excitement and dialogue - and EVERYBODY loved it. Now all we get is 2 hours of characters squealing about "Kobayashi Maru".
My ultimate point is that if they wanted to make a 2 hour piece of crap to make money off of - why didn't they just call it "Lost" or "Heroes"?
</rant>
Super Turbo Deluxe Custom
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My favorite throwback to the series was Kirk making out with the green alien.
1- I do know how to write.
2- Star Trek has gotten unbelievably bloated, boring, and is constantly going over the same damn material. I like the reboot. I like the fact that they can now totally change the story. What is wrong with that?
3- You CANNOT please all the people all the time. It is impossible. If you think that you can do that with anything, let alone a film that so many people have a lot invested in, you are insane.
4- Okay Mr. Genius, enlighten us all as to how you would have totally rebooted the storyline and made it good and unpredictable without breaking the canon, using the same characters, and without having an alternate timeline. When I went to the Hilton in Vegas for the Star Trek thing they had there, the Star Trek timeline was all written out in chronological order. There were very few bald spots.
5- It was obvious to me that since this is the first in a new series of films, that they needed to introduce the characters to a new audience. That is exactly what the point of this movie was; establishing the characters. I am sure later films will have more complex plots and a wider variety of themes, but that's not what they needed in this movie. They needed people who weren't interested in Trek before to get interested, and for people like me who used to be into it but have gotten sick of the same old crap and that Star Trek Nemesis bs to have a reason to look forward to future endeavors by introducing a new crew with new motivations to make Trek sexy again. Mission: accomplished.
2- Star Trek has gotten unbelievably bloated, boring, and is constantly going over the same damn material. I like the reboot. I like the fact that they can now totally change the story. What is wrong with that?
3- You CANNOT please all the people all the time. It is impossible. If you think that you can do that with anything, let alone a film that so many people have a lot invested in, you are insane.
4- Okay Mr. Genius, enlighten us all as to how you would have totally rebooted the storyline and made it good and unpredictable without breaking the canon, using the same characters, and without having an alternate timeline. When I went to the Hilton in Vegas for the Star Trek thing they had there, the Star Trek timeline was all written out in chronological order. There were very few bald spots.
5- It was obvious to me that since this is the first in a new series of films, that they needed to introduce the characters to a new audience. That is exactly what the point of this movie was; establishing the characters. I am sure later films will have more complex plots and a wider variety of themes, but that's not what they needed in this movie. They needed people who weren't interested in Trek before to get interested, and for people like me who used to be into it but have gotten sick of the same old crap and that Star Trek Nemesis bs to have a reason to look forward to future endeavors by introducing a new crew with new motivations to make Trek sexy again. Mission: accomplished.
Wana_make_a_guitar
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hannaugh said:
I agree.
You know what, just let the box office do the talking. 230 MILLION in 2 weeks. dudes, thats almost as much as insurrection, nemesis and first contact combined!!! You just have to move on. You can't just stick to the past. If we want to see star trek in the future, with more feature movies, more series, whatever, we have to move on. I don't know what a cop out is, and I don't care. the time-travel made it possible to revamp the franchise. not neccasarily a new series, but a movie or 2 would be good. Now we're not stuck with old stories with a cramped up feeling up their ass to make it 100% fully canon. it opens new doors.
that its just stealing what JJ abrams did? No, a homage. Paying tribute, respect to the old series, and launching it into the new century. Star Trek is 40 years old, and it started to look a bit like my mother-in-law, who's 55, and still wears tight leggings and tight shirts, bit like this:
Its so easy to trash this movie, just because its not what you are acustom to. but thats just to easy. what else do you want? more talk? more techtalk? more psychotalk? thats the reason star trek got canceled in the first place! In this movie, it balances the talk and action nicely. Thats what I want to see: action, combined with deep characters, development of the characters, but not too much; but when you see those scenes it should make SENSE, and make the story complete and more complex and deep. and yeah, thats what they've done here.
that its just stealing what JJ abrams did? No, a homage. Paying tribute, respect to the old series, and launching it into the new century. Star Trek is 40 years old, and it started to look a bit like my mother-in-law, who's 55, and still wears tight leggings and tight shirts, bit like this:
Its so easy to trash this movie, just because its not what you are acustom to. but thats just to easy. what else do you want? more talk? more techtalk? more psychotalk? thats the reason star trek got canceled in the first place! In this movie, it balances the talk and action nicely. Thats what I want to see: action, combined with deep characters, development of the characters, but not too much; but when you see those scenes it should make SENSE, and make the story complete and more complex and deep. and yeah, thats what they've done here.
Kublai
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My problem with the movie isn't that it is a reboot of Star Trek. I think it is just a bad movie, with some very cool effects. The actions of, and personal interactions between the characters was just BS for the most part. It rarely allowed me to suspend my disbelief. Like I said though, I am rough on movies.
Kublai, that's totally fine. Everyone has their right to their opinion. The thing I'm tired of hearing is people complaining about the alternate timeline being a cop out when they don't seem to have any suggestions as to what would be a better way to reboot the story.
The only thing I can think of is if the ship went through some sort of wormhole or something and was turned into 2 different Enterprises, and then one of them got lost in another part of the universe. But that has also already been done before, and I would much rather see the future adventures of the Enterprise in the same part of space (but without Vulcan!), because otherwise it's just Voyager in a different time period. The thing with Star Trek is that as far as space phenomena goes, they've done so much already. I mean, come on, there were 5 tv series, 10 movies, multiple comic book series, and an endless supply of novels. There isn't a lot left that hasn't been done.
Maybe they should just steal plot lines from Red Dwarf? That's it! The Enterprise gets sucked into a timehole and ends up in their time so far into the future that the universe is no longer expanding but contracting, and time is running backwards. So our guys will be running forward in a backwards universe from now on.
The only thing I can think of is if the ship went through some sort of wormhole or something and was turned into 2 different Enterprises, and then one of them got lost in another part of the universe. But that has also already been done before, and I would much rather see the future adventures of the Enterprise in the same part of space (but without Vulcan!), because otherwise it's just Voyager in a different time period. The thing with Star Trek is that as far as space phenomena goes, they've done so much already. I mean, come on, there were 5 tv series, 10 movies, multiple comic book series, and an endless supply of novels. There isn't a lot left that hasn't been done.
Maybe they should just steal plot lines from Red Dwarf? That's it! The Enterprise gets sucked into a timehole and ends up in their time so far into the future that the universe is no longer expanding but contracting, and time is running backwards. So our guys will be running forward in a backwards universe from now on.
hannaugh said:
cool idea!
or, enterprise is being sucked up and comes in a different timeframe, far in the future, and she has to deal with how to cope with being 'old fashioned' to say the least.
becauseee....
@hannaugh: the universe will never, ever contract. just not possible. this due to, as we physicians call it, the critical mass of the universe. there has to be a special density and mass distribution before it will contract, and there is too much mass for that. if you want to know more about it, I'll be happy to explain it.
Kublai
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The alternate timeline does bother me, but not because of any ST canon or dogma. When Vulcan was destroyed, I was like "So what? They are alive in the other universe." Spock's mother died. So what? She is ok in the other. Anything could happen at that point, and that fits with ST canon IMO. But the alternate timeline prevented me from becoming emotionally vested in the movie. I didn't care who died. I didn't care if they destroyed the Romulans, because it didn't matter anymore.
Super Turbo Deluxe Custom
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I wish Ohura wouldn't have looked like a poor man's Beyonce.
Galaxy_Stranger
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Hannaugh said:
Orpheo said:
And thus begins the verbal abuse... I don't recall being rude to anyone about this. I certainly didn't call you insane for enjoying the movie. All I did was try to explain the other half's perspective.
That's exactly my point. This movie is an extension of that. There was no new material. We've seen the same thing over and over again for about the last 23 years. Even TNG was lifting scripts directly from TOS the first few seasons.
Orpheo said:
...it didn't steal anything from Abrams. Abrams directed it...
Galaxy_Stranger said:
Omg, seriously??? Did "Mr. Genius" offend you? I assure you my tone was only playful. I said you are insane if you think that any movie could ever be liked by everyone who sees it. I did not say you were insane for not liking the movie. It wasn't like I accused you of not knowing anything about writing or something like that... :icon_biggrin:
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