Short-scale 3-pickups bass: concepts

[Mathieugr]

Hi all,

I've been thinking of building a 3-pickup bass to combine Rickenbacker and Fender tones (and make my wife happy by keeping a single bass). Short scale because of joints damage.

I've worked on 3 concept ideas: a Precision bass, a Telecaster bass, a Single Cut G4 bass. Body would be maple and neck wenge/wenge most likely.

The Telecaster concept will require a custom Nordstrand pickup (which they can do, those guys are awesome) and a custom neck to fit the long-scale body (I've found the company that would do it at a reasonable premium vs Warmoth necks).

This will be my 1st Warmoth build, let me know what I should check / review!  :headbanging: I've tried to keep the electronics reasonable, but this one definitely will require some attention.

 

[BlueTalon]

How are you planning on doing the electronics?  As someone whose main player is a 3-pickup bass, and who has another couple in the works, I have some ideas about pickups and controls, but I want to know what your ideas are before saying anything.

 

[Mathieugr]

How are you planning on doing the electronics?  As someone whose main player is a 3-pickup bass, and who has another couple in the works, I have some ideas about pickups and controls, but I want to know what your ideas are before saying anything.

The controls might vary depending on the level of switching I want. I understand having 3 volume pots in the circuit tends to darken the tone so I might avoid having all 3 active at the same time.
- the easiest would be VVVT, with an on-off switch for each volume (maybe push-pulls pots) and a master tone
- a solution requiring more wiring, but with potentially more flexibility, would be to use a super switch to select pickup coils / pickup combinations and send them to a master volume and tone.
- if I'm going for the hidden Precision pickup hidden between the pickguard (1st concept), I would have to use 2 separate volume controls (to balance the reduced output of the hidden pickup) and a switch to direct either the Ric or the Precision signal to the master tone and output jack.

Looking forward to your suggestions  :icon_thumright:

 

[Rick]

Try one of these ...
https://www.freewayswitch.com/products/

 

[NonsenseTele]

Why the 3 volumes darkens the tone???

I like the P Bass better! :icon_thumright:

 

[BlueTalon]

The controls might vary depending on the level of switching I want. I understand having 3 volume pots in the circuit tends to darken the tone so I might avoid having all 3 active at the same time.
- the easiest would be VVVT, with an on-off switch for each volume (maybe push-pulls pots) and a master tone
- a solution requiring more wiring, but with potentially more flexibility, would be to use a super switch to select pickup coils / pickup combinations and send them to a master volume and tone.
- if I'm going for the hidden Precision pickup hidden between the pickguard (1st concept), I would have to use 2 separate volume controls (to balance the reduced output of the hidden pickup) and a switch to direct either the Ric or the Precision signal to the master tone and output jack.

Looking forward to your suggestions  :icon_thumright:

OK, first things first.  My bass has eight 500K pots (four concentric 500K/500K pots) on it, and I have no problems with the sound being too dark with all three pickups on.  In fact, I sometimes have to dial down the brightness.  So if the pickups you choose are capable of being bright at all, I wouldn't worry about any darkening effect of having three pickups on at once. 

The pickups I chose are Fender Super 55 split-coil Jazz pickups.  They have good output, brightness, and clarity, and with regards to unwanted noise, they are dead silent.  It was a great choice, and I'd heartily recommend them if it weren't for the fact that Fender quit making them.  Fortunately, those types of pickups are made by lots of different pickups makers.

Regarding the wiring and switching, let me just tell you what I did.  I wanted individual volume and tone controls for each pickup, plus master volume and tone controls.  I contacted a few people to help and advise me, and the only one who took me seriously was Michael at Turnstyle Switch, so that's who I went with.

The Turnstyle is a rotary switch.  Michael's first idea was to use it as a pickup/pickup-combination selector switch, but on his website, he offers versions of the switch for Jazz and Precision basses that give those basses additional voices.  Ultimately, I decided on having one position on the switch be manual control of the pickups, and the other five positions being different voices (Jazz, Precision, Rickenbacker, Thunderbird, overdrive).  In those modes, only the master volume and tone controls are operative. 

So now, I can choose to use one, two, or all three pickups when I want to, or I can choose a particular voice.  It is phenomenally versatile, and it's something I can change in a 1/2 second when I'm playing if I want to.  I like my arrangement using the rotary switch better than a two or three position switch or five position blade switch, but that's just my preference.

And by the way, this is a Warmoth body and neck. 

 

[amon]

Alternative Idea: Two J-style single-coils and a Tele 4-way switch.

 

[BlueTalon]

A few more observations:

Nordstrand pickups are a great choice.  You said they would do a custom pickup for you if you go with the Tele design.  But if you go with the Tele design enough to have a custom pickup made for it, are you sure this is the bass you want for three pickups?  The body shape is really irrelevant to the pickups -- if you're going with a three pickup design, you're already throwing convention out the window.

If you want both a Fender sound and a Rickenbacker sound, I'd recommend going with three jazz hum canceling pickups like the Nordstrand NJ4SE or NJ4SV.  I used two neck pickups and one bridge pickup, and it worked great.  I'd also recommend contacting Michael at Turnstyle, he can hook you up better than you can imagine.

If you put a short neck on a long body for a short scale, you're going to have fewer frets available to you, and it might end up a little goofy looking.  I'd recommend going with both a Warmoth body and a Warmoth neck if you want the short scale.

 

[NonsenseTele]

Alternative Idea: Two J-style single-coils and a Tele 4-way switch.

That is exacty something I plan to do! Might sound lovely on series position.

I'd recommend going with both a Warmoth body and a Warmoth neck if you want the short scale.

I recommend that too: A short scale P or J... To keep things easier I'd go with a J body/neck and the 4 way switch...

But you wouldn't have the tone options of the 8 knobs, of course...

 

[NonsenseTele]

Also, perhaps a stock wiring with a push-push pot that changes to the series position would work... it would not need for additional routing on the body, you could buy one or stock or normal order...

I *think* it would work, but I'm a donkey in electric wiring...

 

[BlueTalon]

But you wouldn't have the tone options of the 8 knobs, of course...

When you write it out like that, the idea sounds a little nuts.  But it doesn't look as weird as you might think.  Check the picture out, if you haven't already. 

And FYI, that was a prototype for that particular tone setup.  I'm having another bass made that will have about the same amount of tonal flexibility with fewer controls.  (Ironically, it will look like it has more knobs because none of the controls will be stacked.)

 

[bagman67]

But you wouldn't have the tone options of the 8 knobs, of course...

When you write it out like that, the idea sounds a little nuts.  But it doesn't look as weird as you might think.  Check the picture out, if you haven't already. 

The black.  It's very slimming.  Also hides stains.

 

[Mathieugr]

Thanks for all the input!

I’m going to stick to a Warmoth body and neck combination, it will indeed make things easier to manage. The Telecaster is out of the picture. I’m not a fan of the Jazz bass design even tough another control hole could be useful. Worst case scenario, I’ll drill another hole myself. I’ve realized the placement of the pickups was off, they are now corrected in the attached pictures

Concept 1: Short-scale Precision bass, 1 pickup hidden under the pickguard

Concept 2: Short-scale single-cut G4

The body will be maple and the neck wenge/wenge. Should be awesome and look killer! Rather heavy combination so I’ll ask Warmoth to pick the lightest body blank they can find, at the very least for the G4 body since it can’t be chambered.

Based on my discussion with Nordstrand, the pickups will be a combination of Split Coils (NP4A) and Big Splits can ensure all combinations are hum-cancelling. The Split Coils will be custom assembled into their covers. I’m switching the soapbars in the Precision to EMG 35 shapes to reduce their width and avoid cutting the pickguard.

The Precision bass follows a mostly standard arrangement with the Split Coil close to the Fender position and various combination of coils.  The G4 gives 2 different P voicing, with the neck NP4A coils being close to a P51 location and the bridge NP4A coils being located around the D-G side of a typical Fender pickup.

I’m trying to stick to the pre-drilled holes for the controls. I’m reverting to a single Master volume and Tone and using switches to trigger various combinations or kill pickups. Using both split-coils in series on the Precision concept might not be the best idea, I guess I’ll have to try.

The Turnstyle Switch is an intriguing option, I assume it works similarly to a Line 6 emulator? I'll definitely reach out to Michael to check what tone swould be a good addition to the bass.

I’m currently waiting for Warmoth to spec the cost of the bodies…

 

[BlueTalon]

Two more things to consider -- if you have a MM pickup hidden by a pickguard, that means it's going to be lower than the other pickups with no way to adjust the height, which is usually how you control the output of a pickup.


And if you're concerned about weight, I'd suggest using a Babicz bridge rather than the Hipshot Kickass.  The Hipshot is quite a bit heftier than the Babicz.

 

[amon]

I'd suggest getting a real Leo Quan Badass used rather than the Hipshot copy.  The Badass has saddles you need to notch for your string spacing instead of the inserts (which will collect finger-funk and the set screws will strip) on the Hipshot.  The BadassIII is pre-notched for multiple spacings and has a string-through-body option.  Made of brass instead of whatever Korean mystery metal on the Hipshot. 

 

[BlueTalon]

I'd suggest getting a real Leo Quan Badass used rather than the Hipshot copy.  The Badass has saddles you need to notch for your string spacing instead of the inserts (which will collect finger-funk and the set screws will strip) on the Hipshot.  The BadassIII is pre-notched for multiple spacings and has a string-through-body option.  Made of brass instead of whatever Korean mystery metal on the Hipshot. 

You think Hipshot uses mystery metal?!?

Regardless, it's not advisable for the OP, since he's trying to save weight.  Any of the Badass-style bridges are going to add significant weight.  The Babicz was specifically designed to be a solid lightweight bridge, which is why I think it's the best option for someone trying to avoid unneeded weight.

 

[Mathieugr]

I'd suggest getting a real Leo Quan Badass used rather than the Hipshot copy.  The Badass has saddles you need to notch for your string spacing instead of the inserts (which will collect finger-funk and the set screws will strip) on the Hipshot.  The BadassIII is pre-notched for multiple spacings and has a string-through-body option.  Made of brass instead of whatever Korean mystery metal on the Hipshot. 

You think Hipshot uses mystery metal?!?

Regardless, it's not advisable for the OP, since he's trying to save weight.  Any of the Badass-style bridges are going to add significant weight.  The Babicz was specifically designed to be a solid lightweight bridge, which is why I think it's the best option for someone trying to avoid unneeded weight.

Good call! I’ve reviewed the Babicz bridges over the weekend and will use one instead. I’m planning a regular 19mm string spacing, the adjustable saddles of either the Badass or Kickass bridges won’t be needed.

I’m also wondering whether the middle Big Split would be a good enough P impersonator that a separate pickup wouldn’t be needed. It’s the closest thing to a split-coil P according to Nordstrand, and the location is only a bit south of the P regular location... This is where the Turnstyle switch could shine...

 

[Rick]

Interestingly, both Babicz and Hipshot are NYS companies.

 

[NonsenseTele]

But you wouldn't have the tone options of the 8 knobs, of course...

When you write it out like that, the idea sounds a little nuts.  But it doesn't look as weird as you might think.  Check the picture out, if you haven't already. 

And FYI, that was a prototype for that particular tone setup.  I'm having another bass made that will have about the same amount of tonal flexibility with fewer controls.  (Ironically, it will look like it has more knobs because none of the controls will be stacked.)

I had no intention on mocking the amount of knobs, was just a checking point of the limits he would have going on the 4 way switch...

And good advice on pickup height...

 

[BlueTalon]

I had no intention on mocking the amount of knobs, was just a checking point of the limits he would have going on the 4 way switch...

And good advice on pickup height...

Oh man, I wasn't offended the least little bit.  I thought it was a really funny comment!