Rack Gear?

[Rouse]

And anyone who says they can hear the difference between a PCB amp and a point-to-point hand-wired amp is full of $#it.

:icon_scratch: BIG difference. OMG. The hand-wired amps have better craftsmanship and in something as sensitive as a good tube amp, it makes such a difference. I can hear it, just listen harder. It makes more of a difference which you actually play both of them. A good tube amp has dynamics and character. PCB's can sound sterile in comparison. Some people can hear the difference between something like an aluminum and steel chassis, just because you cant, doesn't mean everyone else can't either.

 

[mayfly]

And anyone who says they can hear the difference between a PCB amp and a point-to-point hand-wired amp is full of $#it.

:icon_scratch: BIG difference. OMG. The hand-wired amps have better craftsmanship and in something as sensitive as a good tube amp, it makes such a difference. I can hear it, just listen harder. It makes more of a difference which you actually play both of them. A good tube amp has dynamics and character. PCB's can sound sterile in comparison. Some people can hear the difference between something like an aluminum and steel chassis, just because you cant, doesn't mean everyone else can't either.

Well,

In my experience, with the same schematic and the same parts and similar layout, PCB vs point to point vs turret board vs eyelet board has zero effect on tone.

What has an effect on tone is that with PCB, you can add more circuitry - which done badly can affect tone.  Also, with PCB you can use smaller package parts (like chip ceramic caps) which definitely affects tone.  Finally, PCBs are a PITA to work on, which although does not affect tone, affects the life and ease of maintenance of the amp.

PCBs by themselves used well with a good circuit and good parts are not bad for tone.  Just ask Randall Smith.

 

[Tempest]

I still love my grunge music, no matter how much you try to trash it.

Well, fortunately, it is out of style and will never be back in-style. It was just a way for record companies to make a quick buck off guys who were not very good musicians (and couldn't play a guitar solo). It was also a form of rebellion against all the cookie-cutter hair-Metal/Glam bands that became so ridiculous by the late '80s/early '90s.

OK, Stone Temple Pilots, Soundgarden, and Smashing Pumpkins were full of great musicians.  You my friend are judging too quickly, I suppose with that opinion you probably haven't listened to much of it.

 

[Cagey]

And anyone who says they can hear the difference between a PCB amp and a point-to-point hand-wired amp is full of $#it.

:icon_scratch: BIG difference. OMG. The hand-wired amps have better craftsmanship and in something as sensitive as a good tube amp, it makes such a difference. I can hear it, just listen harder. It makes more of a difference which you actually play both of them. A good tube amp has dynamics and character. PCB's can sound sterile in comparison. Some people can hear the difference between something like an aluminum and steel chassis, just because you cant, doesn't mean everyone else can't either.

You'll always hear a difference because you're never comparing apples to apples. Even two supposedly identical point-to-point or PCB amps will not sound the same because of component tolerances, although you have half a chance with PCB-based amps. And don't discount the power of suggestion - it's tremendous.

 

[kboman]

On what do you base that opinion about eddie ?

My taste in music!

 

[Death by Uberschall]

All you need to know:

http://www.bogneramplification.com/customshop/Pcboard.php

All components being the same, along with a well designed PCB that's built with heavy traces, you won't know the difference.  :icon_thumright:

The Soldano SLO is PCB with military spec components and it's still considered one of the "Holy Grail" amps that many get compared against for almost 20 years now.

 

[Superlizard]

Doubtful you'd hear a tonal difference 'tween PCB and PTP.

However, if a component fails, it's much easier to replace on a PTP board... not to mention
any modding/testing different component values.

PCB mounted pots are also notorious for being unreliable, as opposed to the "flying leads"
type of pots.

 

[Strat Avenger]

And anyone who says they can hear the difference between a PCB amp and a point-to-point hand-wired amp is full of $#it.

:icon_scratch: BIG difference. OMG. The hand-wired amps have better craftsmanship and in something as sensitive as a good tube amp, it makes such a difference. I can hear it, just listen harder. It makes more of a difference which you actually play both of them. A good tube amp has dynamics and character. PCB's can sound sterile in comparison. Some people can hear the difference between something like an aluminum and steel chassis, just because you cant, doesn't mean everyone else can't either.

Tell Bruce Egnater that...

 

[Strat Avenger]

I agree that PTP is easier maintenance, but I don't care what anyone says; I'd bet $1000 CASH that in a blind listening test, no one could hear a tonal difference between PCB and PTP circuitry.

 

[Rouse]

I agree that PTP is easier maintenance, but I don't care what anyone says; I'd bet $1000 CASH that in a blind listening test, no one could hear a tonal difference between PCB and PTP circuitry.

Supposedly, Ken Fisher said he could. He worked at Ampeg for a while before he did Trainwreck. He built the exact amp but one was pcb and the other was point to point. He said he could hear a noticeable difference. Ken said he could hear the difference between this wire and that wire and this brand of cap and that cap.

Alot of pcb amps use the pcb to save a few bucks and keep consistency. And if they want consistency, they are probably going to use metal film resistors which, at times, can sound sterile.

Rack gear is just not for me. When you have more than just a preamp or an "amp", things can get processed and the fine details will begin to get lost. In my opinion, guitar tone is at its best when you keep your rig simple. Hand me a good, simple tube amp and a delay and I'm golden.

 

[dbw]

PCB vs. point to point is a matter of construction, cost, and maintenance, not a matter of tone.  (Assuming the PCB wasn't designed by a monkey who runs the high-power nets too close together... but you could have shiteety lead dress cause interference in a point to point amp just as easily.)

PCB is way cheaper to mass-produce, but point-to-point wins all other categories.  But no tone difference.  I'd make the same $1000 bet as Street Avenger... no way you could HEAR the difference if the circuit and components were the same.

And now we veer wildly off topic so I can flame this guy.

I still love my grunge music, no matter how much you try to trash it.

Well, fortunately, it is out of style and will never be back in-style. It was just a way for record companies to make a quick buck off guys who were not very good musicians (and couldn't play a guitar solo). It was also a form of rebellion against all the cookie-cutter hair-Metal/Glam bands that became so ridiculous by the late '80s/early '90s.

Um, OK.    Why should we care what's in style?  Justin fricking Beeber is in style. 

And go back to dinosaurrockguitar.com if you're going to be a douche like that.  They will happily join in your anti-grunge ranting.  Who cares if they play solos or not?  Just because you are unable to distinguish "good" from "fast and complicated" doesn't mean the rest of us can't. 

Here are the Melvins playing pure grunge in 1984.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJu4Fgl58Bs
They're still playing today and are more popular then ever.  If Kurt Cobain hadn't died, Nirvana would probably still be playing too.  In conclusion, you don't know shitee and should shut up.

Edit: added smiley face

 

[kboman]

Bwahahahaha! I wuv you dbw :toothy12:

 

[Death by Uberschall]

Grunge brought about one of the greatest bands of the '90s, Alice in Chains. Enough said.  :headbang1:

[youtube=425,350]alsUu-MGE9g[/youtube]

 

[dbw]

Alice in Chains RULES.  Also Soundgarden.  :guitarplayer2:

 

[Superlizard]

I'd go with Soundgarden Badmotorfinger and a handful of AiC tunes, but the 90's were pretty much forgettable.

You know how they have tributes to the 50's 60's 70's 80's?  In the media?

The 90's?  Pfft.  Nothing to really speak about.  It was the first decade to have no soul of its own.

And it didn't have a "soul" because having a "soul" meant you stood for something or another, and doing so
was deemed "offensive" (this ties right in with the "no solos, no extravagance" music philosophy).  It was
more "noble" to be deemed a nobody/loser who stood for nobody and nothing.

But nothing=forgettable.

And c'mon - dinosaurrockguitar.com ownz 'em all...

...the guitar gods doth lurketh in there, after all.

===

Or to sum up (musically speaking again):

Even though I am pretty much opposed to all they stood for, I would respect a 60's hippie any day over
a (similar-aged) 90's flannel-wearing stand-for-nothing navel-gazer.

Because the hippie stood for something at least.  And that's why they're memorable and therefore
etched into our music history.

 

[GoDrex]

blah blah blah you're old

 

[Cagey]

blah blah blah you're old

He may be, but if you're not, you need to remember that old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill every time <grin>

 

[Superlizard]

blah blah blah you're old

He may be, but if you're not, you need to remember that old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill every time <grin>

He's old, too.

He just hasn't reached that consciousness yet, man.  :icon_biggrin:

 

[Cagey]

 

[AndyG]

You know how they have tributes to the 50's 60's 70's 80's?  In the media?

The 90's?  Pfft.  Nothing to really speak about.  It was the first decade to have no soul of its own.

Let me first say that I do NOT disagree with any of your statements .... the 90's were very much "meh".

However, give it time, it has only been 10 years.  When what is old is new again, there will be tributes galore.  Hell, Ray Bans, shoulder pads, neon, leg warmers, and big hair seem to be returing to fashion.  If the 80's are back, the 90's aren't too far behind (ahead?).

And to remain on topic of this tread, if you like the tone you're getting, it doesn't matter which box (or combination thereof) it comes from!