Question for W builders: What's so bad about a "mutt" W/Fender?

[AprioriMark]

One of the things that I often do for friends building their first Warmoth is to purchase a used Fender or Squire guitar or body from Craigslist.  Especially with the Chinese Squire bodies, I've found some resonant pieces for 30-75 bucks.  I've probably built 15 strat or tele guitars like this. 

Is there some downside I'm unaware of regarding slapping a Warmoth neck and good hardware/electronics in these things?  I've never understood why people would pay 220+ for a Warmoth strat body if it's simply a solid color on alder/basswood/poplar.  I did buy a Tele body from Warmoth back in 2000 for a 70s Tele neck, and I love it, but I'm not sure it was "worth" the cost difference except in my own personal snobbery.

Opinions/experiences?  Thanks.

-Mark

 

[JaySwear]

i don't think there's really a downside to that except that with warmoth you know the body underneath is of decent quality. i saw a forum post (went looking for it, couldn't find it. sorry!) on another forum where a guy sanded down a cheap-o body and found it was full of knots in the wood, was a 5 or 6 piece body, and not entirely made of mahogany (what it was claimed to be). it also had several dents and dings in the body that had been filled in with whatever, sanded down, and painted over. it was one rough looking piece of something or other. all because it was painted a solid color.

the people on the forum it was posted on were split between "its a cheap guitar, you get what you pay for" and "thats horrible, what a rip off." i was on the rip off side. but if the squier body you find is in good shape (and maybe if you never bother to try sanding it down to see whats really underneath) then i don't see any problems with it at all. i think it's a great way to afford a fully custom guitar. although i'm really picky about routings and colors, so unless i found the perfect squier or fender body for me i'd have to turn it down.

 

[AndyG]

I managed to marry a sweet goncalo alves "screamin' deals" neck to an old Ibanez RS440 Roadstar body that I got for free from a buddy of mine.

The holes lined up perfectly, no intonation problems (mind you, I replaced the bridge as well, and was careful to measure its position), and ended up with a pretty cool little "Warbanez".  My re-painting job wasn't great, but it's a fun little axe nonetheless.

Worst-case scenario, you get the neck, try putting it on the body of your choice, and if it doesn't work, you've got a brand new neck to start a full on project!!    :rock-on:

 

[rockskate4x]

I just bought a warmoth body for an old fender neck i had lying around.... didn't fit so I bought a warmoth neck yesterday...

i have no regrets...

 

[tfarny]

I've done this a few times and don't see anything wrong with it per se, I think bodies are less important to the sound than most of the other parts, and the place where warmoth really really shines is in necks, of course. But if somebody wants an overall "great guitar" from a looks, feel, etc. standpoint then of course using a crap chinese body isn't the best way. Nothing wrong with saving bucks, though.

 

[SlingBass]

I've done this a few times and don't see anything wrong with it per se, I think bodies are less important to the sound than most of the other parts, and the place where warmoth really really shines is in necks, of course. But if somebody wants an overall "great guitar" from a looks, feel, etc. standpoint then of course using a crap chinese body isn't the best way. Nothing wrong with saving bucks, though.

Pretty much my position on the matter.  I like to marry Highway One bodies to Warmoth necks...I can't find a better sonic combination to my ears  :dontknow:

 

[TRG]

to keep the cost down for someone. should work fine. but with a warmoth body and neck you can have custom shop quality at standard american prices.

 

[jackthehack]

I've put a Warmoth neck on a couple of MIM Strats for people, not an issue, you can find MIM Strats complete for $200/less if you look. I suppose a Squier body would work as well, but I'd steer clear of the ULTRA cheap Chinese/Korean made models, remember reading somebody having a neck fit/setup problem with those.

If they want a solid opaque Fender color anyway, it really doesn't make a whole lot of difference how many pieces the body's made out of.

Another caveat is that some of the Squire bodies, I know the ones from Indonesia, are made from Agathis and are REALLY light, any choice other than a maple neck with or without different fretboard could get pretty neck heavy depending on the woods used.

 

[m4rk0]

I've put a Warmoth neck on a couple of MIM Strats for people, not an issue, you can find MIM Strats complete for $200/less if you look. I suppose a Squier body would work as well, but I'd steer clear of the ULTRA cheap Chinese/Korean made models, remember reading somebody having a neck fit/setup problem with those.

If they want a solid opaque Fender color anyway, it really doesn't make a whole lot of difference how many pieces the body's made out of.

Another caveat is that some of the Squire bodies, I know the ones from Indonesia, are made from Agathis and are REALLY light, any choice other than a maple neck with or without different fretboard could get pretty neck heavy depending on the woods used.

Most modern Chinese/Indonesian Squiers are also really thin.. like 2/3rds of a regular strat body..in combination with the weight, it feels more like a toy guitar to me.

other than that, there is nothing wrong with Fenmoth mutts

 

[NLD09]

I've done this a few times and don't see anything wrong with it per se, I think bodies are less important to the sound than most of the other parts, and the place where warmoth really really shines is in necks, of course. But if somebody wants an overall "great guitar" from a looks, feel, etc. standpoint then of course using a crap chinese body isn't the best way. Nothing wrong with saving bucks, though.

Pretty much my position on the matter.  I like to marry Highway One bodies to Warmoth necks...I can't find a better sonic combination to my ears   :dontknow:

That's what I did.

 

[Aaronic]

I have a different perspective.  I've noticed that a lot of people on this site debate the amount of influence a body has on the guitars tone.  Well, imo, it's a ridiculous statement as it is every bit as important as the neck.  Not one thing determines a tone, it's how the individual parts compliment each other.

My first build was a Warmoth neck and a USA Fender strat body purchased from a reputable parts dealer  on ebay.  I was a Les Paul guy and was surprised to find that my newly built strat was very dull sounding in comparison - just could not get decent top end from it.  Over a couple of years, I replaced EVERY part of that guitar except the body... kinda got used to the tone and compensated... then I finally got fed up and purchased another Fender body from the same dealer and it was literally like a blanket was lifted... this guitar finally has "life" in it!  Moral of the story:  You can't always trust the "brand name" quality, but I've NEVER been let down by a Warmoth.  :headbang:

 

[bbl4ck]

 
You can't always trust the "brand name" quality, but I've NEVER been let down by a Warmoth.   :headbang:

This is a very good point.  You know exactly what you are getting when you buy a Warmoth...
My first experience with the Big W was adding a Warmoth neck to my MIM Robert Cray strat. 
I of course noticed a great difference in the playability.  But have always wondered how it would sound if it were a Warmoth body.  Ya just never know what is under all that paint  :icon_scratch:

 

[AprioriMark]

Yeah, I just don't know what's so bad about the Chinese Squire bodies specifically.  They're thinner, yes, but the finish is just as good as an American Strat I've ever owned.

-Mark

 

[Superbeast520]

Hey Mark, well honestly you'll probably not get the most favorable feedback for using lower grade Un-Warmoth parts here...lol....Im sure thats expected...lol

Most of us on the site are Warmoth Snobs.... as its like everybody says...you just can't get this kind of quality from mass production guitars. That dosn't mean you can't build a good sounding instrument substituting various parts, but its usually pretty obvious when you start comparing low grade to high grade stuff..though Im certain even the experts could be fooled on occasion.

But seriously play a high quality Warmoth guitar and you'll start to appreciate the feel and tone of first class woods when you compare it to a hack strat of Squire type quality.

Theres certainly no shame in macking out a cheaper Fender or any guitar for that matter with a killer neck......but chances are you'll be wanting to go the distance once you realise how nice Great parts really are.

 

[Kostas]

The body for me it's very important, different woods do sound different. All my builds started with a showcase body that I liked, then I order the neck to my specs. I had a Fender Highway body once but ended up selling it. I will always go for W body+neck.

 

[JaySwear]

here's the post i was talking about. not the same company, but in that price range i would expect the same general type of quality. squier is probably a bit better, but i bet it's not too different.

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1240561

basically the guy sanded down his $300 guitar to see what was underneath and found this:

something you might expect, but worse than i would have imagined. but with warmoth you know any one of the showcase bodies could easily be a top of the line fender production guitar (if not better), and if it's not up to standard you'll know before you purchase.

 

[stubhead]

Well, of course it just depends on the wood. If you know what you've got, it's easier to compliment it with good pickup & wiring choices. My fretless "Imprecision" bass has a nice Warmoth padouk neck on a cheap Mighty Mite body - but the body has good swamp ash underneath a maple "veneer." I chiseled out a square through the finish & the veneer so that the bridge is resting right on the body wood, and cleaned out the neck cavity too. I wouldn't count on any old body sounding good without know what it IS first.

 

[AprioriMark]

I've owned Warmoth bodies that were total duds tonally.  I don't think I would ever order a painted body from Warmoth unless it was a specific awesome color at this point. 

As far as cheapo MiM, MiC etc Strat bodies, I always just pick them up and tap them.  They either feel dead or feel resonant.  Being out 50 bucks if it sounds like pewp is a lot better than being out 250-600 if my beautiful W body sounds dead, at least in my mind.  I'm still looking for realistic downsides to cheap0-grade Fender/Squier bodies.  Aside from snobbery, is there something that actually sucks about them construction-wise?  Isn't a routed piece of wood a routed piece of wood (assuming same type of wood)?

I'm never going to stop buying Warmoth parts, so you don't need to sell me on the obvious upsides to W bodies, but I am honestly interested in what's so sub-par (if there is anything) about a cheap (cost) painted body.  My main Strat started life as a cream colored Mexi-strat.  It's got a beautiful Warmoth neck (finished and set up by Jack Pimentel), active EMG pickups in a brown tortoise pickguard, and locking Sperzels.  I've had all the parts on two different Warmoth strat bodies, and this old Mexican Fender body just sounds better.  I'm not saying that Warmoth bodies are substandard compared to Mexi-Fenders, but I do believe that the piece of wood has more to do with good resonance than how artfully it's shaped and painted.

Blah blah, sorry for babbling. 

-Mark

 

[tfarny]

I don't think anyone is trying to talk you out of cheap strat bodies. If you are willing to cruise craigslist for deals on cheap used guitars and make them better, that's awesome, I'm with you 100%. But if you want something beautiful and unique in addition to great sounding, or you want something unusual like a strat with TOM and P90s, then Big W is there for that as well.

 

[AprioriMark]

I'm really curious if there's some aspect of the building of the cheaper bodies that's inferior and something I might not be considering.  I figure if anyone knows, it's you guys.

-Mark