Please Vote on a New Proposed Rule

[Fat Pete]

Again, just to be clear: nobody suggested allowing extra pictures in the submissions thread.

Apologies for muddying the water. My first post should have been something like:

Links to other threads is a complete non-issue (sorry GOM), but maybe additional photos within the submission thread should be discouraged at least as there does seem to have been an increase in them lately. They do clutter the thread somewhat and could be seen as the visual equivalent of jostling.

That said, it is meant to just be a fun contest and works well as a bit of a summary of recent builds, so just not worrying about it also seems a perfectly reasonable option...

 

[Great Ape]

I voted 'NO', but my vote was based on the ''extra pictures'' factor.

What extra pictures factor? The poll question is "Should GOM contestants be allowed to link to their entry's build thread?". There's no mention of allowing extra pictures in either the first post or the poll.

How do you include a build thread on the GOM thread without extra pictures? All I meant was; by all means allow a LINK to the build thread, so the GOM page(s) are not loaded up with endless build-in-progress pics and descriptions...thereby keeping the GOM thread uncluttered.
LINKS--GOOD...ENDLESS PICS--BAD...pretty simple, really, and everyone's happy...no?

 

[Jumble Jumble]

How do you include a build thread on the GOM thread without extra pictures?

Um, by linking to it?

All I meant was; by all means allow a LINK to the build thread, so the GOM page(s) are not loaded up with endless build-in-progress pics and descriptions...thereby keeping the GOM thread uncluttered.
LINKS--GOOD...ENDLESS PICS--BAD...pretty simple, really, and everyone's happy...no?

But I don't understand why you voted "no" to the question "Should GOM contestants be allowed to link to their entry's build thread?" - it seems what you meant was, yes to that question, and no to a different question that wasn't asked.

 

[Jumble Jumble]

Links to other threads is a complete non-issue (sorry GOM), but maybe additional photos within the submission thread should be discouraged at least as there does seem to have been an increase in them lately. They do clutter the thread somewhat and could be seen as the visual equivalent of jostling.

Ah, yes, I'm with you there. Two pics of each guitar in the WHOLE THREAD please. If more photos are allowed in the rest of the thread then there's no point having the two-pic rule in the first place.

 

[stratamania]

Friendly? I don't know what you mean  :icon_scratch:

Well stiff healthy competition then  ccasion14:

 

[Great Ape]

How do you include a build thread on the GOM thread without extra pictures?

Um, by linking to it?

All I meant was; by all means allow a LINK to the build thread, so the GOM page(s) are not loaded up with endless build-in-progress pics and descriptions...thereby keeping the GOM thread uncluttered.
LINKS--GOOD...ENDLESS PICS--BAD...pretty simple, really, and everyone's happy...no?

But I don't understand why you voted "no" to the question "Should GOM contestants be allowed to link to their entry's build thread?" - it seems what you meant was, yes to that question, and no to a different question that wasn't asked.

You're absolutely correct, Jumble--if I'd laid off me trigger finger for a minute longer, I'd have had a better understanding of what really is a very simple question! If I could do it over, my vote would be a ''YES''...my apologies for any resulting consternation. G

 

[sduck]

I don't understand why the additional pictures should be limited to ones posted to a "build thread" if they're going to be allowed at all. Why not pictures hosted on flickr or photobucket? What if someone built a great guitar but never created a build thread?

I can't vote on this as it's currently worded.

My personal feeling is that 2 pictures should be fine, but if there's any chance of increasing the allowed resolution, that would be great - the 1024x1024 pixel limitation is too small for decent images. Maybe on a phone they're fine, but on a decent large monitor they look really pixelated.

 

[stratamania]

@sduck, most of the photos are hosted on Photobucket or similar for GOM.  They are in my own threads too for example.

Where the photos are hosted isn't the issue it's whether or not there are links to build threads or gallery type threads from GOM. In turn those linked threads will in most cases have photos that are in turn hosted via somewhere like photobucket.

If someone doesn't have a build thread then they don't have one.

 

[Ddbltrbl]

It's just a friendly popularity contest; we aren't deciding the fate of the world!  Given that, I think we should keep the rules and the whining to a bare minimum!

I have no problem with links! I can almost understand that some don't want additional pictures cluttering up the thread, but then again, they are below the entry photos. So, instead of limiting someone else's expression perhaps just not scrolling down that far if you don't want to see more photos might be a better solution.

But, the suggestion by sduck to increase the resolution of the entry photos definitely gets my vote!

Now, somebody post another guitar build!  ccasion14:

 

[sduck]

The reason I pointed this out is that the very first time we were allowed to post additional photos hosted elsewhere, I posted some additional pics that I had stored on dropbox. A stink was raised, saying that it wasn't fair, that I was supposed to only be posting from my build thread, which I didn't have one of. This was clearly a misunderstanding about the way the word hosting was understood differently by some people.

What I see from the way the OP is worded and that many of the replies are worded is that one's build thread is where additional photos are allowed from, but not from other sources. This needs to be clarified. I believe the actual issue is whether or not additional photos should be allowed, wherever they're from; whether they're from a build thread or elsewhere. The way it's currently worded might exclude using pictures from ones build thread but allow them to be posted if hosted elsewhere. It's just words, but words mean things; it's important to get them right.

 

[Jumble Jumble]

The question is whether an entry* can include, in addition to two photographs, a textual link to the build thread. It is not proposed that more photographs be allowed.

* an entry is what goes in the first post of the thread.

Frankly I don't care if extra photos get posted in the replies to the thread, because I don't look at the rest of the thread. I look at the pictures to remind me which guitar is which, and then I write down what number I want to vote for.

To be honest I could see an argument for locking the thread after the first post - there's really no need for discussion after the entries are posted, after all.

 

[Wolfie351]

If links are allowed, I think there should be a permanent link to an OCD help website because some of you really need it!  :icon_biggrin:  Pictures of jaw-dropping, beautiful guitars (linked or embedded) are never considered clutter to me.  Or, maybe some of you are still on dial-up?  :dontknow:

GOM, do what's easiest for you and the volunteers who run the contest.  Whatever the decision, you have my appreciation.  Just remember though, it's impossible to please everyone.

 

[sduck]

The question is whether an entry* can include, in addition to two photographs, a textual link to the build thread. It is not proposed that more photographs be allowed.

* an entry is what goes in the first post of the thread.

I don't see how you read that from the wording of the OP. Where the link (or textual link, whatever that means in this case) goes isn't mentioned anywhere in there. The fact that many well meaning people like yourself are reading different things from the wording of the OP reinforces my call that The Wording Needs To Be Clarified.

 

[Cagey]

If links are allowed, I think there should be a permanent link to an OCD help website because some of you really need it!  :icon_biggrin:  Pictures of jaw-dropping, beautiful guitars (linked or embedded) are never considered clutter to me.  Or, maybe some of you are still on dial-up?  :dontknow:

Hehe! Yeah, does seem to be a lotta sturm und drang over nothing. Put a link in your submission if there's a build thread for it, or don't.

I said earlier that I didn't want the submission thread cluttered up, but the more I think about it I'm not sure that's a Bad Thing. As it is, the thread is practically non-existent until the clock for submissions runs out, so there's nothing to see. It's as if there is no contest until it's almost over. What good is election where you can't review the candidates?

It's not like there's anything tangible at stake, so there's no reason to cheat. It's just a peer review. If you've done exceptionally well, you get recognized. Since there are few rules, it's a pretty subjective contest. Even those who don't win often get mention for their unique qualities. That can often be satisfying enough in and of itself.

 

[BlueTalon]

IMO, half of the spirit of the GOTM contests is seeing the full build threads, including numerous and detailed pictures, progress leading up the finished product, the rationale behind the design choices, etc.  Just having two pictures and a paragraph about the instrument turns this into a popularity contest.

That's part of the challenge of the contest.  How do you best represent your guitar within the confines of two photographs and a paragraph?  That is the same limit imposed on everybody according to the rules.  If you don't like the rules, then say so. 


But I think you have the popularity thing backwards.  If people are going to vote for guitars based on how much you know about the build from other pictures and other threads, then someone who doesn't post much on this board doesn't stand a chance, and that turns the monthly contest into a good-ol'-boys back-scratching fest.


The whole point of the rules is so people would have the closest thing to an equal chance to win.  Posting a slew of pictures of a guitar in the submission thread after submitting an entry completely circumvents both the letter and the spirit of the competition.  Posting links to other build threads isn't quite as in-your-face as posting extra pictures, but it's still an unfair advantage over someone who doesn't have a build thread.  And if knowing the background of the guitars is really that important to you, do you really need a link?  It seems you'd be checking out all the build threads on your own anyway. 

 

[BlueTalon]

To be honest I could see an argument for locking the thread after the first post - there's really no need for discussion after the entries are posted, after all.

That's actually a darn good idea.  Most of the posts that don't include extra pictures or links are just verbal drooling over good guitars.  There is usually nothing of substance in them.

 

[stratamania]

^^ Clearly having a lot of posts and a build thread makes no difference to the GOTM winner. I have a build thread and a fair number of posts but this months worthy winner KorinaKrazy, has about 20 posts and no build thread that I am aware of. His bass looks great.

This should be a fun thing. Having a build thread isn't an unfair advantage it's just providing others with more information.  Even with that information if there is another guitar that more people like the look of it probably won't make a difference at all.

The main thing I like about GOTM is that it's an opportunity for us to see a number of cool looking guitars and fellow forum members ideas. That way we all win as we can gain inspiration etc.

 

[Ddbltrbl]

To be honest I could see an argument for locking the thread after the first post - there's really no need for discussion after the entries are posted, after all.

That's actually a darn good idea.  Most of the posts that don't include extra pictures or links are just verbal drooling over good guitars.  There is usually nothing of substance in them.

Then don't scroll that far down the page! But, don't limit the freedom of the rest of us that want to drool over others guitars and write "nothing of substance" from doing so! That is the main reason I come here, to drool over everyone else's guitars and ideas / feedback! :laughing7:

 

[BlueTalon]

To be honest I could see an argument for locking the thread after the first post - there's really no need for discussion after the entries are posted, after all.

That's actually a darn good idea.  Most of the posts that don't include extra pictures or links are just verbal drooling over good guitars.  There is usually nothing of substance in them.

Then don't scroll that far down the page! But, don't limit the freedom of the rest of us that want to drool over others guitars and write "nothing of substance" from doing so! That is the main reason I come here, to drool over everyone else's guitars and ideas / feedback! :laughing7:

What's stopping you from doing that on the build threads?  Why must you do it in the submissions thread?  If you want to post where all the guitars are together, is it too much to ask you to wait one week and then post your thoughts on the voting/results page?

 

[BlueTalon]

^^ Clearly having a lot of posts and a build thread makes no difference to the GOTM winner. I have a build thread and a fair number of posts but this months worthy winner KorinaKrazy, has about 20 posts and no build thread that I am aware of. His bass looks great.

This should be a fun thing. Having a build thread isn't an unfair advantage it's just providing others with more information.  Even with that information if there is another guitar that more people like the look of it probably won't make a difference at all.

The main thing I like about GOTM is that it's an opportunity for us to see a number of cool looking guitars and fellow forum members ideas. That way we all win as we can gain inspiration etc.

I was addressing my comments specifically to line6man, who questioned the legitimacy of anyone voting no in the poll about links.  There IS a legitimate rationale for not having them in the GOM submissions thread.


Clearly, the additional pictures didn't make a difference in May, but only because KorinaKrazy's bass was so spectacular compared to everyone else.  In a month where the competition is more even, the same cannot be said. 


Yes, the GOM contest is supposed to be fun.  It's also supposed to be fair.  In a thread where each person was limited to two photographs in their entry, most people had two, one had four, and you had nine.


Do you not understand the concept of fair, fun competition?  The whole point of the contest rules is to give people an equal chance to represent their guitars as best as they possibly can.  That's difficult to do with just two pictures, but that's the challenge that makes it fun.