Noise. The Search Continues.

[Firebird211]

You wouldn't have to solder anything if the compartment was shielded, overlapped, and connected by little dents.  The compartment would get it's ground connection from the copper surface of the control plate when screwed down, so there is no need to solder to it directly.  This would be where Cagey and I would see shielding a little differently.  Shielding each hot wire as a whole shielded cable is a good way to shield, but I always see that leaves the terminals of contacts and switches not shielded.  If you put everything in a grounded metal box, then RFI can't enter and cause noise that way.  You can't put the whole guitar in an RF box, but you can keep the noise from easy access where it counts the most. 

 

[leejord]

There are tunnels from pickups and out to jack that I can't get shielding into.do these not allow RF in. Maybe i' ll use shielded cable and shield this compartment. Were my wires copper?

 

[Cagey]

Almost all wires are copper. Sometimes they're tinned, so they look silver, but it's still copper. In very large conductors such as you might find in an industrial building, sometimes they're aluminum for cost savings, but you'd never see that in anything as tiny as a guitar. In any event, the signal levels are so small in a guitar that the wire used is much larger than it needs to be.

 

[Firebird211]

There are tunnels from pickups and out to jack that I can't get shielding into.do these not allow RF in. Maybe i' ll use shielded cable and shield this compartment. Were my wires copper?

For sure, that is the ideal way to do it.  Which reminds me I know the P-rail has a shield cable, but what about the other two single coil pups?  Even the wires that aren't copper are a decent enough conductor given their short length.

 

[leejord]

The other 2 are unshielded copper.cagey advised not to change these as spicing not advised and I may cause problems replacing wire completely

 

[Cagey]

You might want to read this regarding noise and its sources.

 

[Firebird211]

I wouldn't advise you to alter the pickup cables anyway, just curious.  I usually shield everything from the control compartment to the jack, with a shielded cable going between the two.  I take it the noise isn't gone.    I have done the bare cable to the amp before like the link showed because I'm easily amused, and it does buzz when I touch it.  Why didn't I think of that. :tard:  When you touch an oscilloscope probe you will see all kinds of funky noise too.  Digging a little deeper, is this the only guitar you have, is there noisy appliances on the same electrical circuit, or is there a radio station, tv station, or airport nearby?  I have seen noise come through everyday appliances like tv's and radio's just because the rest of the house had missing grounds or ancient wiring.  I suppose you could try the guitar in a different environment or try a different guitar in the same environment.  On top of all this fun stuff do a google search for "guitar noise stops when I touch knobs" , you will find many threads and information that is all too familiar to you.  When I read them, I see a strong possibility that it is no longer the guitar causing the noise.  Even flourescent lights cause noise.  A solution for noise coming through the electrical is to use a power conditioning strip.

 

[Firebird211]

Check out this little gem from tdpri:

KCLeftyFebruary 24th, 2010, 05:42 PM
Okay, right. I guess I mistakenly described the problem to the DiMarzio tech guy. Hum stops when I touch pot knobs. Does NOT stop when I touch strings or bridge plate.

So I need to add a ground wire from the back of vol pot to the back of the bridge plate, yeah?


I second that yes.

I have the same pickups and they are dead quiet.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OkieactorFebruary 25th, 2010, 12:18 AM
Got home, realized I had no wire. So I thought. Canibalized an RCA cable to create a ground. As expected, no noise whatsoever once installed. Rock on. Couldn't find my guitar polish. Finally found it in a bin along with the wire I was saving in case I had to wire anything else. Oh well, problem solved.

Pickups sound disamn good.

I think you tried that 100 times already :doh:  I wish it was that simple for you at this point.  You keep looking, and we will do the same.

Found this too: http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?2213913-Crackling-sound-(stops-when-touching-strings-metal-parts-of-guitar)-gt-possible-cause

 

[leejord]

this is my only guitar. sold all my previous equipment which allowed me to get a much better amp and the Warmoth. will try at another place to see if quieter. there is a lcd tv about 6 metres away.I think I'll shield the control cavity as well as use shielded cable for hot connections. At least that way I've done all I can.
I'll look into these power conditioning strips( whatever they may be )

 

[Firebird211]

I just wasn't sure if you had a different guitar to try, or if you had similar problems where you are at before.  The guitar is the first place to look for a solution to the noise problem, but the environment can get to it to.  Trying your equipment somewhere else will tell you once and for all what the culprit is.  As far as the power conditioner, you don't have to go out and buy an expensive Furman unit, or at least I hope not.  You should be able to find a sensibly priced power strip with power conditoning capability/noise filter, but try the gear somewhere else first, after you have finished shielding the guitar.

 

[Cagey]

I'll look into these power conditioning strips( whatever they may be )

Those "Surge protector power conditioning" strips have little to no effect on anything, as far as conditioning goes. If they did, they'd cost many hundreds of dollars, not front pocket money, and they'd  weigh as much or more than your amp. Their greatest utility is the fact that you get several outlets out of one outlet and it's switched. There's often a circuit breaker built in to protect the circuit breaker at the distribution panel (pointless). The "power conditioning" is usually nothing more than an MOV and a little DvDt circuit across the primary feed, which is generally a lot less than what is already built into the power supply of the device you're trying to protect.

So, it's not that the things are useless - we all need multiple outlets to hook up a variety of things, so by all means get one of the little buggers - but the "conditioning" part of the sales pitch is a marketing ploy. Means nothing. Even the Furmans that cost $150 and up don't do anything special outside of some convenient packaging that sometimes includes a voltage readout and some lights.

 

[Firebird211]

I would hope you wouldn't wind up using something like a Furman.  At work, they aren't useless, they do power sequencing and control.  The power conditioning side is just one form of protection from power surges and fluctuations, or something that will blow up before the equipment.  Radio shack has, or at least used to have RF noise suppressors for power outlets.  I don't think your TV is the problem, but does noise come through the speakers too?  I hope this isn't the case for you at all, but I have run into so many funky instances of noise for things other than the guitar that required filtering or some form of isolation, and that took care of it.  I hate to send you anywhere else to buy more crap, but you can purchase one of those lighted plug outlet indicators that you can move around from plug to plug to verify if the outlets are grounded in your home.  Those are pretty cheap.  Of course do all of the other stuff first before you come to this point.  My amp already has a noise gate in it, but check out stuff like this too: http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Ebtech-Hum-X-Hum-Exterminator?sku=150452  that seems better, but similar to what Radioshack used to have.

 

[Jusatele]

Every one KNOWS the Brown surge protectors have better tone, and white ones sound like chicken farts

 

[Firebird211]

Every one KNOWS the Brown surge protectors have better tone, and white ones sound like chicken farts

:laughing3:  And they let out smoke all the same when they stop working.

 

[leejord]

Changed over dpdt to 5-way and 5-way to vol pot wires to shielded(and grounded shielding).also shielded control cavity(copper tape not very adhesive).no improvement in noise.have gig next week.hopefully can control noise with fingers.

 

[Firebird211]

Shh...crap, that is the worst kind of deadline to meet.

 

[Firebird211]

You did everything that you could do, and I feel bad that there is noise still.  I was wondering, when just the humbucker is selected, was noise still present?  I don't know if you ever said anything about that.  The single coils will never be very noise free, but they do sound awesome.  There should be a big difference between the two, but like Cagey said, there is some noise inherent in your guitar and amp.  Since you switched out both your guitar and amp, you may not have a good point of reference as to what it is because all of your gear has changed, and possibly just the way it is.  That could be minimized by noise filtering and tweaking the settings on your amp.  It could even be your amp.  You probably don't have any recording gear, but it would be good for us to hear it for ourselves.

 

[Cagey]

Changed over dpdt to 5-way and 5-way to vol pot wires to shielded(and grounded shielding).also shielded control cavity(copper tape not very adhesive).no improvement in noise.have gig next week.hopefully can control noise with fingers.

It would be interesting to hear how much noise this thing is actually making. All guitars make some noise; guitar amplifiers have high impedance inputs that are sensitive to very small signals and the gain is just so high it's tough to keep them from hearing something. You may be trying to chase something away that everybody else just lives with. Also, as I mentioned before, you shouldn't be letting go of your guitar with the volume knob wide open. You're just begging for hash and spurious vibrations to get amplified when you do that. You need to develop the habit of automatically cranking off the volume when you're not actually playing, even if all you're doing is stopping mid-beat to clap your hands or sing or something.

 

[leejord]

Ive got a little tascam portable recorder (which only works sporadically). will make recording and post. Noise only slightly less on humbucker.

 

[Firebird211]

Ive got a little tascam portable recorder (which only works sporadically). will make recording and post. Noise only slightly less on humbucker.

Cool, It might be like mine then.  Do you have any guitar pedals to go through directly, or just the amp?  If your gear allows, can you just hook headphones to the pedal output, is there any significant difference than going through the amp?  Let her rip.