No stupid questions, only stupid people...

[waygorked]

To add to my ever growing list of stupid questions, has anyone ever contemplated converting a bolt on neck to a set neck? Is there a good reason why a Warmoth neck and body cannot be glued in, and the heel reshaped like a PRS or Gibson? Assuming that I can't possibly be the only one who has thought of this, and yet no one does it, There myst be a reason why it is a bad idea that I am not seeing. I know Ed Roman claims that gluing in a neck ruins the sustain via impaired wood-to-wood vibration transfer, and I tend to get great results from using threaded neck inserts, but still...

Any thoughts?

 

[line6man]

Ed Roman knows his shit! You should listen to everything he says!

 

[nexrex]

My general understanding as to why its a bad idea ism as follows.

The length of the neck pocket is really not long enough to be able to handle the upward tension being exerted on the neck. All gibsons and PRS guitars actually have the neck glued in so that it goes most of the ways under the neck pickup route.  Correct me if I'm wrong , but don't some manufactures also use a dovetail style joint to stop the neck from being pulled out again.

 

[Alfang]

Nexrex is correct, Line6man is incorrect, Ed Roman is a morron, sure he has an opinion on everything, but not all his opinions are good or correct.  So go ahead and read what he says, but don't take it as gospel

 

[line6man]

Nexrex is correct, Line6man is incorrect, Ed Roman is a morron, sure he has an opinion on everything, but not all his opinions are good or correct.  So go ahead and read what he says, but don't take it as gospel

Maybe the sarcasm didn't show in my post?

 

[Cletus]

Let's call that a fail

 

[nexrex]

My understanding is that Ed Roman is an out-spoken and overly opinionated douche. Thats what I've read on forums anyway.   :icon_biggrin:

 

[JaySwear]

My understanding is that Ed Roman is an out-spoken and overly opinionated douche. Thats what I've read on forums anyway.   :icon_biggrin:

you should read some of the stuff on his website, then! some of his "rants" are actually pretty funny. not intentionally, but just dumb enough to be hilarious.

don't worry, line6man, i knew you were kidding :icon_biggrin: of course i assume that everybody's kidding whenever they say anything good about ed roman

 

[-CB-]

Nexrex is correct

Actually... Nexrex is not correct at all.

It is not the length of the pocket that is the problem.  Its the shape and design thats the problem.  The Gibson neck pockets are fit tight on the side, and this is where all the contact and support is.  There is virtually no support on the bottom of the pocket, which is just as well, since the wood would rip there, due to the orientation of the grain in comparison to the direction of the stresses.  Fender neck pockets are fit with loose sides, open sides... Gibson has the sides enclosed, and they have to do that, since thats the actual point of the mounting of the neck.  I can't speak for PRS... and knowing "a little something" about PRS, they probably have side and bottom contact on their set neck designs.  Thats ok, but bottom only is not good.  The stress would tend to cause the wood to pull apart.  So... this means you cant just "glue in" a bolt on neck.  Sorry.

 

[-CB-]

Ok ok ok ok.... Nex IS correct on Ed Roman.  Double douche dare ya.... thats him.

 

[OzziePete]

I have kinda stripped back the BS quotient and even the acoustic/physics debate and just based my thoughts on this:

In both methods of joining, the neck and the body are securely attached to a high level of integrity if done properly. We have all seen 50+ year old Teles and Gibsons still playing strong, so either way, that joint will hold!

So IMHO, they are about equal & I guess it comes down to personal choice.

If your neck, for whatever reason, needs replacing, I would prefer that catastrophe occur on a bolt on neck guitar than a set neck. That glue would be hell to remove and re setting the (new) neck would require a very good luthier to handle it properly..

 

[Cagey]

I don't think he's asking which way is better, but instead why you couldn't (or shouldn't) glue on a bolt-on neck. CB pretty much answered that - there isn't enough surface area or a solid enough mechanical connection with a bolt-on design for the joint to withstand the stress. The neck would separate from the body. And oddly enough, it probably wouldn't be the glue joint that failed - modern glues are incredible. It would be the wood itself tearing along the grain.

 

[nexrex]

Nexrex is correct

Actually... Nexrex is not correct at all.

It is not the length of the pocket that is the problem.  Its the shape and design thats the problem.  The Gibson neck pockets are fit tight on the side, and this is where all the contact and support is.  There is virtually no support on the bottom of the pocket, which is just as well, since the wood would rip there, due to the orientation of the grain in comparison to the direction of the stresses.  Fender neck pockets are fit with loose sides, open sides... Gibson has the sides enclosed, and they have to do that, since thats the actual point of the mounting of the neck.  I can't speak for PRS... and knowing "a little something" about PRS, they probably have side and bottom contact on their set neck designs.  Thats ok, but bottom only is not good.  The stress would tend to cause the wood to pull apart.  So... this means you cant just "glue in" a bolt on neck.  Sorry.

I do stand corrected. I would have thought there was a difference between the surface area at the point of adhesion. Comparing my set neck LP to my bolt on Warmoth LP there really isn't that much of a differance. So the tight fit of the neck to body pocket. CB is correct. But Ed Roman is still a douche....  :laughing7:

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

If Eric Johnson can be satisfied with a bolt-on neck, most of us mere mortals should be.  I have yet to tell the tonal differences of 9 volt battery brands or known the difference between the right and wrong end of a cable, but none of that really answers your question.  The rest of the guys covered why it shouldn't be, but contemplation?  One of the guys has an ongoing project, but he ordered an altered, or unaltered, neck pocket, so he isn't converting a bolt-on to a setneck.  Can't find the thread.

 

[Cagey]

I do stand corrected. I would have thought there was a difference between the surface area at the point of adhesion. Comparing my set neck LP to my bolt on Warmoth LP there really isn't that much of a differance. So the tight fit of the neck to body pocket. CB is correct. But Ed Roman is still a douche....  :laughing7:

There is a difference in surface area at the point of adhesion - it's much larger. But, it's also on the sides more than the back, so you have a shear load instead of a tensile load on the joint. It's more of a tenon joint, rather than a lap joint like on most bolt-on designs. Here are a couple pictures that should clear that up...

 

[Volitions Advocate]

Maybe the sarcasm didn't show in my post?

I've found the best way to do sarcasm on a forum is no caps no punctuation. At least that seems to be the rule on other forums I frequent.

im glad somebody asked this question i dont think it has ever been discussed before on this forum

 

[Disco Scottie]

Oddly/funny enough, there was a Warmoth build on eBay just recently that had its bolt-on neck glued in. Go figure.

 

[Firebird211]

I have kinda stripped back the BS quotient and even the acoustic/physics debate and just based my thoughts on this:

In both methods of joining, the neck and the body are securely attached to a high level of integrity if done properly. We have all seen 50+ year old Teles and Gibsons still playing strong, so either way, that joint will hold!

So IMHO, they are about equal & I guess it comes down to personal choice.

If your neck, for whatever reason, needs replacing, I would prefer that catastrophe occur on a bolt on neck guitar than a set neck. That glue would be hell to remove and re setting the (new) neck would require a very good luthier to handle it properly..

 
I agree with Ozzie, glue on the neck would make replacing the neck quite a B.  You would wish it wasn't glued if you were at that point.  Maybe I am wrong, but it seems like a bolt on neck pocket is too shallow to "just glue in".  It seems like you would have to bolt it anyway.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

A friend of mine, who is too smart to be told otherwise, plays a 7 string Conklin bass.  It has a bolt-on neck he glued in.  He swears it changed the tone for the best and gives him the best of both worlds.  I think it ruined it.  He now has a bolt-on neck he can't unbolt and a set neck with bolts in it.

 

[jalane]

of course i assume that everybody's kidding whenever they say anything good about ed roman

:laughing7: so true