NGD Non-Warmoth guitar.

[Re-Pete]

2019 Gibson SG61 Reissue with Maestro Lyre Vibrola

So I got GAS, relented and bought this guitar.

Here's an early photo of it, straight out of the box.

No, the Vibrola doesn't return to pitch as well as a Floyd Rose or even a Strat, but I have a Strat & two Warmoths for any serious divebombing. Good for shimmers though.

First impressions: Nice and light-ish. Balanced, no neck dive. Action pretty good. Structurally looks all good. Frets (and fret ends) good.

I'm happy.  :hello2:

It's time for dinner, so I will get back to the guitar after that and give it a play through the Kemper.

To some it may be an Angus guitar, but for me, it's a George Harrison/ Pete Ham guitar.

TBH never thought I'd end up owning one, but there you go....

 

[Logrinn]

Congratulations to what is one of the most ultimate guitars out there.
This is the SG I like the most.
I’m really jealous now  :icon_jokercolor:

 

[Re-Pete]

Congratulations to what is one of the most ultimate guitars out there.
This is the SG I like the most.
I’m really jealous now  :icon_jokercolor:

Thank you.
I had friends when I was starting out on guitar who had some poor experiences with SGs and those are the well known issues with the design.

I  just played it for an hour through my Kemper & home studio system. I started out on a Deluxe Reverb clean profile, which sounded very 50s, Les Paul... The humbuckers (61R & T) don't sound muddy at all.... which I like. Believe it or not, the tone knobs are useful (though as I get older I am more keen to play around with the tone knob for subtle change)

I then put it through it's paces with a couple of overdrive pedals. As the volume in the room lifted I could feel the whole guitar shake with it, so it's quite acoustically responsive. The guitar itself sits well on the strap and it's reasonably light for a Gibson.

I then went for broke & dialled up the Marshall 1987X profile that I have tweaked to extreme. Goodness me, I had to tone things down but then, once I backed off the gain, there was the Angus tone....there's a hint of throaty undertone too....

I think the frets must be 6105 profile or very close to them. When I have built Warmoths I have used the 6105 frets & this SG feels similar. And, to me, the neck profile is very similar to the Warmoth Standard Thin, although the flat 12" radius on the SG promotes a different feeling under the hand as you go up the fretboard.

The SG has promise ....I think we can live together and make some music... ccasion14:

Tomorrow I'll be taking the strings off and putting new ones on (10-46). The fretboard (Rosewood) is quite dry looking, so I'll clean up the guitar and give the fretboard some decent treatment. I have a pack of Dunlop Guitar Maintenance bottles that I use.

I've already had a peek at the trussrod and it's pretty clean and the trussrod socket spanner fits on quickly enough. Only gave it a tweak back & forth (back to original spot) to see if the rod works....which it does.

Also tomorrow, while I have it on the bench, I'll peek inside the electronics and see what's inside there. I believe these 2019 models (Original series) have the old school soldering...

The guitar came with a brown old styled hard case, and the usual case candy - including a Gibson multi tool, which will be handy. Oh and a 2.5" wide strap...

Hey! It seems all OK and quite a decent package...  :cool01:

 

[rgand]

Congrats. That's a beautiful one. I always liked the cherry red. How do you like those Alnico III pickups?

 

[Re-Pete]

Congrats. That's a beautiful one. I always liked the cherry red. How do you like those Alnico III pickups?

These are '61 Humbuckers with Alnico 5 magnets. A bit of push in power but not muddy.

 

[rgand]

Congrats. That's a beautiful one. I always liked the cherry red. How do you like those Alnico III pickups?

These are '61 Humbuckers with Alnico 5 magnets. A bit of push in power but not muddy.

Cool. Those are good sounding magnets.

 

[Seamas]

To some it may be an Angus guitar, but for me, it's a George Harrison/ Pete Ham guitar.

Yep, and about half the guitarists at Woodstock were playing them too, the rest all seemed to favor ES 335s or D-28s.


Then there there was that one guy playing a Strat left handed.

 

[PhilHill]

From what I've found, the only major guitarist that didn't like the LP/SG was Les Paul. He hated the thing, or so he said. :headbang:

 

[Re-Pete]

From what I've found, the only major guitarist that didn't like the LP/SG was Les Paul. He hated the thing, or so he said. :headbang:

No the SG does have a chequered history which it deserves. I know what I was getting myself into buying the Maestro Vibrola model instead of the stop tail piece.
You can imagine, at a time when the whammy bars on Strats, Jazzmasters & Jaguars were getting a serious workout by surf music, as well the guitars loaded with Bigsbys, these guitars are released and perform less than admirable when the vibrato units are used. If I had bought the one with the Sideways Vibrola, I probably would have sourced down one of those MojoTone Vibrola blocks that convert it to a blocked unit. At least with the Maestro unit, it will work a little bit.

The Klusons on it have the older styled turning ratio so one minute you're a fraction flat, one small twist of the tuning keys and your sharp! I don't think the strings are grabbing on the nut, I honestly think that's the higher ratio tuners that I'm not used to.

Les Paul, the man, was at a time in his life when perhaps a change was needed. No, he didn't like the lack of mass of the SG, the Vibrola unit was something he himself didn't have a hand in, so if he wasn't going to get inventor's royalties from the OEM installation, you can imagine him being unimpressed. By 1961, the Gibson company had just about declared the original Les Paul series a failure. So I guess the company wasn't too keen to throw more money at Les if he grumbled. The contract was up in 63, he had dropped his radio show, he had dropped his TV show, so his profile nationally was lower. He was about to divorce Mary Ford too. I think by then he had moved to L.A. so he was probably seeing the likes of Paul Bigsby & the Capitol studio people a fair bit. He was also in contact with Leo Fender during his time in L.A. & probably half the West Coast music scene was making it's way to Les' place to talk with him! So he was drifting away from Gibson.

 

[PhilHill]

Your of course right about the vibrola, I forgot about that. But Les mainly didn't like because it wasn't the one he'd put his name on. When Gibson first introduced it they intended it to be the Les Paul's replacement. Later they renamed it the SG. From a couple of books that I've read the story differs a little.Actually Les didn't get a lot of choice on the matters. Les didn't drop the shows or the endorsements and Mary divorced him. She couldn't take his 24 hour a day work schedule and she suffered from phobic level stage fright which drove her to drink, literally. When the new Rock and Roll started coming in with Elvis and Buddy Holly and Chuck Berry. He and Mary's popularity started dropping, so most of his contracts didn't get renewed. He had recently lost the hearing in one of his ears and arthur'itus was taking over his hands. Les was a driven Man, he would never have stopped trying to be no.1, and staying no.1 if he had a choice.
The roundtable discussions involving Les and Leo and Paul took place in the late 40's,early 50's when he had his garage studio in LA. I'm not sure they were still talking in the 60's, as each had come to feel the other had taken advantage of their ideas. But, as I said this is the info that I've found and is subject to question as much as any other. Some of it comes from a book entitled "The Birth of Loud", other parts come from my memory, which is by no means perfect. :icon_thumright:

 

[Re-Pete]

You're of course right about the vibrola, I forgot about that. But Les mainly didn't like because it wasn't the one he'd put his name on. When Gibson first introduced it they intended it to be the Les Paul's replacement. Later they renamed it the SG. From a couple of books that I've read the story differs a little.Actually Les didn't get a lot of choice on the matters. Les didn't drop the shows or the endorsements and Mary divorced him. She couldn't take his 24 hour a day work schedule and she suffered from phobic level stage fright which drove her to drink, literally. When the new Rock and Roll started coming in with Elvis and Buddy Holly and Chuck Berry. He and Mary's popularity started dropping, so most of his contracts didn't get renewed. He had recently lost the hearing in one of his ears and arthur'itus was taking over his hands. Les was a driven Man, he would never have stopped trying to be no.1, and staying no.1 if he had a choice.
The roundtable discussions involving Les and Leo and Paul took place in the late 40's,early 50's when he had his garage studio in LA. I'm not sure they were still talking in the 60's, as each had come to feel the other had taken advantage of their ideas. But, as I said this is the info that I've found and is subject to question as much as any other. Some of it comes from a book entitled "The Birth of Loud", other parts come from my memory, which is by no means perfect. :icon_thumright:

I can't argue with your corrections.

Yes, Les' style of music was waning in popularity and the shows would not have gone on forever. On the interaction with people like Leo or Paul Bigsby, it's worth noting in Les' Estate Auction after his death that there was a Telecaster that Leo or Don Randall had given Les, which was a later date than early 50s.

It's amazing behind all the "why SG?" talk they forget that the original Les Pauls simply did not sell well. Which is why they changed the style, but of course, Gibson were still obliged to put out a 'Les Paul' model too... I guess Gibson just went ahead with the plans and not bothered talking too much to Les.

Look at the number of 58, 59 & 60 Bursts that were sold. There's a factory record of Les Pauls that left Kalamazoo that's been openly used as reference material for authentication of these now-valuable instruments, and yet they also tell the tale of a major manufacturing company not having a successful model. (Part of the reason for the Bursts having such value, if authentic, is that there were relatively few made).

I honestly think if the SGs were better designed, especially their vibrato units, that the older Les Pauls might have been forgotten for much longer than they were. I think by 1961, Gibson could not get involved with Bigsby as they had hooked up with Gretsch & were probably flat out trying to supply Gretsch with all the Bigsbys they needed. So Gibson had to design a vibrato to compete in that market. 

 

[PhilHill]

I can't argue with your corrections. Yes, Les' style of music was waning in popularity and the shows would not have gone on forever. In Les' Estate Auction there was a Telecaster that Leo or Don Randall had given Les which was a later date than early 50s.

It's amazing behind all the "why SG?" talk they forget that the original Les Pauls simply did not sell well.

Look at the number of 58, 59 & 60 Bursts that were sold. That's a sales record that's been openly used as reference material for authentication of these now-valuable instruments, and yet they also tell the tale of a major manufacturing company not having a successful model. (Part of the reason for the Bursts having such value, if authentic, is that there relatively few made).

I honestly think if the SGs were better designed, especially their vibrato units, that the older Les Pauls might have been forgotten for much longer than they were. I think by 1961, Gibson could not get involved with Bigsby as they had hooked up with Gretsch & were probably flat out trying to supply Gretsch with all the Bigsbys they needed. So Gibson had to design a vibrato to compete in that market.

I think your right there. The original LP's had a lousy bridge and used a trapeze tailpiece that wasn't very good. I think the main reason the LP's didn't sell well at first was because they weighed 9lbs + . I sometimes think the SG gets treated unfairly even with it's faults. The main reason that the Les Pauls came back into popularity was because that's what Keith Richards, Bloomfield, Clapton and the rest were playing. If Keith had decided to play a D'Angelico archtop things would have been vastly different. :headbang:

 

[Re-Pete]

The main reason that the Les Pauls came back into popularity was because that's what Keith Richards, Bloomfield, Clapton and the rest were playing. If Keith had decided to play a D'Angelico archtop things would have been vastly different. :headbang:

The demand for the old Les Pauls came about because they had the humbuckers in them and as the amplification power rose significantly, people like Clapton & Richards needed guitars that wouldn't howl like stuck pigs with feedback or hum like a swarm of bees. The tone of the Les Pauls was 180- degrees away from the Rickenbacker mod styled sound of The Who, Small Faces etc  and even the hollow bodied type sound from The Beatles and The Hollies at that time... For Blues it had a different tone to the Strats and Teles too.... So in the search for the next new sound they found these cheap guitars....The rest is history and quite a crazy anomaly.

I'm aware of the history of the SG and just very glad that Gibson put out a new guitar in 1961, the year I was born. Jaguars didn't come out until 1962, the Jazzmaster was released in 59, there wasn't much happening in 61 other than the first recession after WW2 and that meant things often stopped or changed.

I was playing the SG again tonight and it fits me nicely... I really can't complain about it. It feels like a decently made player guitar, not a custom high class guitar. But then again, in 2017,  I tried a Gibson Custom Shop 57 RI LP that was high priced and it felt the same! That was what I couldn't get my head around when I tried that LP.... It was beautifully made, but it felt like a standard guitar, nothing overly special. And of course, if you reissue a standard guitar 50 years later, that's exactly what you should get! I had to walk away from that thankfully. I now see it's overpriced. Especially when compared to my 'in the hand' impressions I'm getting with this SG that cost a  LOT less.

 

[Seamas]

The main reason that the Les Pauls came back into popularity was because that's what Keith Richards, Bloomfield, Clapton and the rest were playing. If Keith had decided to play a D'Angelico archtop things would have been vastly different. :headbang:

The demand for the old Les Pauls came about because they had the humbuckers in them and as the amplification power rose significantly, people like Clapton & Richards needed guitars that wouldn't howl like stuck pigs with feedback or hum like a swarm of bees.

That Beano album sure made an impression.
While there were prior guitarists who did things with overdrive and ripping speakers, Clapton walked into the studio with the Les Paul and the JTM45 and dimed it.
I have read that the engineers recording it were freaking out. I think this was still at the time when the engineers in the UK were wearing lab coats and expected certain manners and obedience from the musicians. A cranked amp was not part of their experience. I am not a Marshall or Les Paul guy, per se, but that is one killer sound.

 

[PhilHill]

The main reason that the Les Pauls came back into popularity was because that's what Keith Richards, Bloomfield, Clapton and the rest were playing. If Keith had decided to play a D'Angelico archtop things would have been vastly different. :headbang:

The demand for the old Les Pauls came about because they had the humbuckers in them and as the amplification power rose significantly, people like Clapton & Richards needed guitars that wouldn't howl like stuck pigs with feedback or hum like a swarm of bees.

That Beano album sure made an impression.
While there were prior guitarists who did things with overdrive and ripping speakers, Clapton walked into the studio with the Les Paul and the JTM45 and dimed it.
I have read that the engineers recording it were freaking out. I think this was still at the time when the engineers in the UK were wearing lab coats and expected certain manners and obedience from the musicians. A cranked amp was not part of their experience. I am not a Marshall or Les Paul guy, per se, but that is one killer sound.

Exactly right. Clapton believed in, guitar on 10, Marshall on 10, Producer and Engineer can just deal with it. He said it was the only way to get "His" sound. Which he discovered by trying to get Albert King's sound. Eric wanted it the same way he played it on stage, maximum. Mayall said "Give God what he wants!" when the studio people complained.  :headbang:

 

[DangerousR6]

Nice SG, but Angus typically used the one with the folding vibrato arm... :dontknow:

 

[Re-Pete]

I don't think so.  :icon_scratch:

Angus used an SG that had batwing pickguard design originally. That had a Maestro Vibrola, IIRC. He then took the Maestro off and had a wrap around stop bar bridge. The sideways Vibrola SG (LP) only lasted about the first 2 years. By 64 the Maestro had replaced it. The Harrison/Ham SG is a 1964 SG.

Later Angus signature models had the older styled pickguard configuration.

I didn't buy the guitar because of Angus anyway. I wanted something that reflected my birth year (1961). The SG started out back then (as the new Les Paul).

I would have bought an SG with the sideways vibrola if I could have sourced one here in Australia (can't) and if the vibrato unit was in any way usable (it really isn't).

 

[Re-Pete]

I cleaned this guitar up, gave the fretboard an oiling and restrung today.

 

[Logrinn]

Looks mighty fine!

 

[ragamuffin]

Those maestro tailpieces look super cool! I used to have a Firebird (without a maestro) and was always trying to find one to put on it