Need Advice for new Warmoth LP, Action and Setup Problems

[Sb39]

Hi everyone.  I figured it would be easier to just post a video.  Sorry for the crappy mic quality, it's actually my mixing board that's on the fritz.

Thanks to Cagey for the advice I've gotten so far.

In this video I talk about the problem and try to demo the sound so you can hear it.  Watch the video, then if you have any tips for me I'll be grateful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBTYlyW2Gvg

And in spite of what I said about what inspired this guitar, I got absent minded and left out Hannaugh's amazing blue LP as the other part of that inspiration. 

Seriously, whatever anyone can advise I'll listen.

 

[reluctant-builder]

Did you go angled pocket? If not, try a shim?

Also -- in the realm of easier fixes -- it sounds like you need to tighten the truss rod, if you've got that much bow (I assume you mean concave, where the neck bends away from the strings). I like a fairly straight neck, where any concave is hard to detect with the naked eye, and I rarely run into intonation or buzz problems, unless the humidity is ridiculous.

My truss was fairly loose when I got it from Warmoth and it took a good series of turns to get it to the right tension. It hasn't needed any adjustment since. I've got a Vintage Modern neck on a Jazzmaster.

 

[jackthehack]

It looks like you still need truss rod adjustment; hard to tell, but it looks like on the video that the strings are closer to the frets at the guitar end of the neck than further up?

Do you have a metal straight edge at least the length of the fretboard?

Vintage modern necks tend to take a bit more futzing around with than Pros to get set up...

 

[Sb39]

Reluctant, yes, it's an angled pocket.  And yes, the neck is bowed where the middle of the neck is further away from the strings.  The truss rod, I was under the impression that:

counterclockwise = convex
clockwise = concave

Is that correct?  Or is it the other way around?  If so, it feels like the rod needs to be turned clockwise just to get it to tighten.

jackthehack - the nut may need to be lowered, but it doesn't seem like it's too high off the first fret.  I've already glued it in, but I can always grind down the grooves in it with a dremel.

I tried to get a sideways shot of the neck but I couldn't get close enough without blurring the focus.

 

[reluctant-builder]

Let me disclaim that I am in no way anything but a novice guitar builder, who happens to own a slew of guitars. I've been able to maintain them reasonably well, and I don't have any wavy necks, but those are my sole credentials when it comes to dispensing advice.

When I adjust the truss rods on my guitars, I hold them so that I'm looking up the neck. Headstock in hand, butt of the guitar on the floor. Bear in mind that I am left-handed, but I don't think that has any bearing on which way to turn the thing: lefty loos-ey, righty tighty.

So, if I've got a concave, bowed neck and need the fingerboard to be flatter and closer to the strings, I'm going to turn the alan key to the right (clockwise) to tighten the truss rod.

If I don't have enough relief, I turn my alan key to the left, loosening the truss rod and thus slackening the neck.

If someone wants to sort me out on this, please do. Seems sound to me, as I've put it.

 

[jackthehack]

Still hard to see, but if it's bowed away from the strings in the middle of the neck I think you need to tighten it.

Just do it a smidgen at a time and make sure it's moving in the right direction,

 

[Sb39]

Well, I was able to relax the bow and get the neck more straight.  It didn't really help, unfortunately.  I'm kind of wondering if the frets need working.  When you fret a note past the 12th fret on the D string, for instance, the string's vibration area is just extremely close to all the remaining frets above it.  Given that problem, it kind of rules out the nut being set too high for me.  Does that make sense?

 

[Cagey]

The strings will be very close to the frets past the note that's fretted. It's finding that height where they don't actually hit those frets that's the trick, and as little as .001" can make a difference. If the neck is properly set up, you will adjust the bridge saddles (if you can) to get the height you need. If your saddles aren't individually adjustable, you can usually raise the entire bridge. If it gets to the point where the strings are too high to be comfortably playable by doing that, then it's likely the frets need leveling/crowning.

Warmoth doesn't do any setup to the neck; they just build it. As much fretwork as they do is installing them and beveling the ends. Because the fretboard is new and freshly surfaced, the frets generally go in pretty level and many people will play them as-is. I've had a couple show up here perfectly level, only requiring dressing and polishing. But, more often you'll find that 3 or 4 frets will be a bit tall in the saddle, and need to be taught a lesson.

 

[reluctant-builder]

Well, I was able to relax the bow and get the neck more straight.

Not trying to be pendantic, here, but it's important to note that you're not actually 'relaxing' the bow, you're tightening the truss rod, thus tensing the neck, to make it straighter. Concave bow is the direct result of a relaxed truss rod.

In sum, less tension leads to concave bow (allowing string tension to exert more influence, like a bow and arrow), more tension leads to convex bow (where the 'hump' is closer to the strings, because the truss rod is providing too much tension; more than the tension of the strings can combat).

 

[bassfrancesco]

Hi Reluctant,
You should play the guitar first with clean, not distortion, on your video.  You and we will hear fret buzz.  The distortion from your amp is getting in the way. 

Change the strings to 11 or even as low as ten, with quality strings.

I suggest to tighten truss rod: 1 to compensate, then to add tension 3-4 eighths of a turn clockwise.  Then raise the bridge!  Then, the strings will pull the neck back to near-level.  Rest the butt of guitar on your shoulder, facing forward. Then, in the process raise the neck with your other arm.  Look at the horizontal level of strings vs fretboard.  With your eye evaluate the level needed for the strings to lay to your preference.  Raise and lower the bridge to your preference. 


When played clean you should hear clear defined notes all the way up the neck.  Then distort with effects. 

If that doesn't work, take it to your local luthier for a proper setup.  But, Ill bet you'll figure it out!

 

[reluctant-builder]

Hi Reluctant,
You should play the guitar first with clean, not distortion, on your video.  You and we will hear fret buzz.  The distortion from your amp is getting in the way. 

Hey, now. It ain't me with this issue, it's Sb39.  :icon_biggrin:

 

[Cven]

I've found the best, and most consistent, way of setting up a guitar is as follows.

- Make sure you have a set of feeler gauges (can be picked up at auto parts stores for $6) and a capo handy.
- ALWAYS make sure your strings are tuned properly before making measurements.
- If you have a guitar that is already setup and you like how it plays, use measurements from that guitar as reference.
- To set neck relief, place the capo on the first fret, using your picking hand press down low E string at the 16th fret, measure the distance between 8th fret and string with your feeler gauge.  I like to have 0.004" relief.  It's not much at all, but some people like to have 0.000".  It's all a matter of preference.  If the measurement isn't where you want it, adjust the truss rod, tune and measure again.  Only make adjustments of about 1/8 a turn at a time.
- Once the relief is set, time to set the action by adjusting the bridge height.  I measure the distance between the 12th fret and string on both bass and treble sides.  Your treble side will most likely be lower than your bass side.  Best thing to do here, is make an adjustment, tune, and play the guitar for a bit.  For me, i like to get the strings as low as I can with a little bit of buzzing.  Some people don't like buzzing.  All preference.
- After this I intonate, but I won't go into that.
- Once you have your guitar setup perfectly, write down your setup measurements, so when you go to do a setup on the guitar in a year, you'll remember what you did and it will make the setup that much more easier.

 

[tfarny]

I think you should take it to a really good guitar tech until you know what you're doing. There are books on the subject of getting electric guitars to play better, and people who spend their lives doing just that. If you want it to play really really great, a few posts on a forum like this might not be enough.

The last few builds I've done, I have budgeted $150 to have the frets perfected, fret ends dressed, and final nut adjustments done. I can do a lot of stuff, but I'm not as good as a good professional.
It's just a part of the cost of having a great guitar unless you are really awesome at setup.

 

[stubhead]

SET DOWN THE DREMEL

STEP AWAY FROM THE GUITAR!

Jesus guys, are you not paying any attention here?!?! Not you kid, the rest of our lofty so-called ex-spurts here. Holy Shizt they rag on me about what I might ingest, they need to go slaughter their enemies so'z they can eat some brains. When you hear a novice builder, hell if you hear George FrikkinGruhn say:

I've already glued it in, but I can always grind down the grooves in it with a dremel.

the big warning klaxon in yo head is supposed to go BRANG BRANG BRANG and you make a beeline toward, ummm, there... to rescue that guitar.

So, um, no kid - you can't just grind them down with a dremel. I mean you can, but you'll want to save the sawdust as tinder to start the bonfire that may be your neck. Now that you've glued it in - uh-oh, what did you glue it in with and how much? - the only thing that can get the grooves right is some nut files, operated by someone who knows how. You're entering into the part where certain really tiny amounts of tweezing makes the difference between possible and a great guitar. Do you know anyone who plays guitar well? Do you live in, like Alaska? Gosh I wish we'd caught this a bit sooner, but as long as I don't  here those words again "I can always grind down the grooves in it with a dremel."

You're getting good advice on the trussrod, in a scattered and haphazard way. Well, I set it this way... Well I use feeler gauges... I'm not getting any sound out of the vid, but it looks like the action is really, really low. You've got a tunematic bridge on there, so you know you need to loosen the strings to raise it, right? There are tools to work around that, but, you won't have them. Has anyone mentioned that the saddles on the bridge are st to a 12" radius, but the compound neck means the saddles need to be carefully notched to make them compatible? Are you getting buzzy stings on the D & G, and high action out on the edges?