Shooting a new video on DIY Nitro finish.....advice sought!

aarontunes

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
2,590
Talk to me about wet sanding....I am facing an ethical quandary!

I understand that it results in a more fine finish. However, these lines, written by Ken Warmoth, have been posted on the warranty page of the Warmoth website since the dawn of time:

--------------------

We'd like to offer a word of caution about wet sanding:

DON'T DO IT!

Only after there are several coats of hard finish on the body should you even consider wet sanding. Water will swell the wood and create all kinds of other problems. Be careful not to get water in the body holes and cavities. The end grain here is not well sealed and the glue lines will open very easily if they absorb water. We do not wet sand nor do we recommend this process.

--------------------

So....do I wet sand the bodies in this video?
 

bagman67

Senior member
Messages
8,359
My feeling is that if you're doing a video for posting on the Warmoth YouTube channel, you gotta do what the late and lamented Mr. Warmoth said, and stay dry.  Your premise - that it results in a more fine finish - is not necessarily valid.  Lots of folks get excellent results with straight dry sanding. Just make sure you use high quality abrasives and make sure to blow off/otherwise dust your part before progressing to the next grit. 


Another option is to wet sand with mineral spirits or oil, which will not carry the same risk of pernicious effects as water, but still (imho) violates the spirit of Ken's Law.




Maybe Chris at Highline Guitars can help:


[youtube]https://youtu.be/qrfAanb74Ak[/youtube]


[youtube]https://youtu.be/MQZQlygYtAs[/youtube]
 

DuckBaloo

Senior member
Messages
300
Most people will wet sand because the lacquer gums up the dry sandpaper fast, which is frustrating as hell and adds significant cost and time. Wet sanding also allowed for more gradual work without burning through. Experience finishers with arbor buffers can skip most sanding because the buffer can do a LOT of the work (and can burn through real fast), but that's out of the home builders range.

I agree you shouldn't contradict your website.

You can certainly dry sand, just have lots more paper on hand.

I wet sand either with mineral spirits or naphtha (neither of which rise the grain), others fill the holes with wax or similar and use water.
 

aarontunes

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
2,590
Bagman67 said:
My feeling is that if you're doing a video for posting on the Warmoth YouTube channel, you gotta do what the late and lamented Mr. Warmoth said, and stay dry.  Your premise - that it results in a more fine finish - is not necessarily valid.  Lots of folks get excellent results with straight dry sanding. Just make sure you use high quality abrasives and make sure to blow off/otherwise dust your part before progressing to the next grit. 


Another option is to wet sand with mineral spirits or oil, which will not carry the same risk of pernicious effects as water, but still (imho) violates the spirit of Ken's Law.




Maybe Chris at Highline Guitars can help:


[youtube]https://youtu.be/qrfAanb74Ak[/youtube]


[youtube]https://youtu.be/MQZQlygYtAs[/youtube]


Those vids were extremely helpful. Thanks!


And also thanks DuckBaloo! Hopefully I will do you guys proud.


At this point I'm all done applying coats, and the body will just be sitting for few weeks before I proceed.
 

TBurst Std

Senior member
Messages
2,664
I think the end of your video will prove:

If it’s a finish provided for by the W, go for that option, unless you Really want to do it yourself.

If it isn’t’, consider outsourcing unless you really want to do it yourself.

The only thing I have planned that I won’t have the W do our outsource is a Koa build that I’ll Tru-Oil
 

DuckBaloo

Senior member
Messages
300
Just in case anyone is curious, wetsanding isn't a typical step in commercial guitar production. It would be way too time consuming. They accomplish all of this fast, with minimal physical effort, with arbor buffers and high-temp buffing compound. Often, especially with necks, they straight from clear coating to the buffer.

Wet sanding comes from the automotive world, mostly body shops, where all the work is on metla or plastic and there is no wood to raise grain on.

Wet sanding got carried over into guitar building because a) the cost, storage, and training needed for an arbor buffer is prohibitive to most DIYers and b) aerosol finishes don't lay out as smooth as sprayers.
 

DuckBaloo

Senior member
Messages
300
:hello2: :hello2: :hello2: :hello2: :hello2:

I got a mentioned (twice)!! I'm internet famous!!!

They look great! What does the Warmoth finishing pros think about them?

Your spraying does get much better. Around the 4:00-4:30 mark, you seem to start your spray while the can pointed directly at the body. But you really improve by the time you start spraying the undercoat.

There is such much pain that I can sympathize with. I don't finish enough bodies to justify a dedicated space and a HVLP sprayer, which means more dust and more sanding out orange peel.
 

aarontunes

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
2,590
DuckBaloo said:
They look great! What does the Warmoth finishing pros think about them?


Thanks DB! Everyone here says they came out better than they expected.


Which is a compliment.


I think.  :icon_biggrin:
 

DuckBaloo

Senior member
Messages
300
Aaron, did Warmoth's finishing department weight in on your wetsanding dilemma? I thought your disclaimer was pretty comprehensive and straight-forward.
 

Re-Pete

Senior member
Messages
633
I just opened a video from Davey's World of Fun Stuff, he does guitar repair videos. He's doing a kit guitar build, with spray paints supplied by a sponsor.

I had previously seen Aaron's video for Warmoth and the trigger finger pain he got from spraying so much with a nozzle spray can.

Well, blow me down, Davey had this attachment for his work.... I hope Aaron sees this, it may save that pain he had in his fingers when doing all that spraying, in future work?

https://youtu.be/RfAOdc4wX-c?t=67
 

DuckBaloo

Senior member
Messages
300
Re-Pete said:
I just opened a video from Davey's World of Fun Stuff, he does guitar repair videos. He's doing a kit guitar build, with spray paints supplied by a sponsor.

I had previously seen Aaron's video for Warmoth and the trigger finger pain he got from spraying so much with a nozzle spray can.

Well, blow me down, Davey had this attachment for his work.... I hope Aaron sees this, it may save that pain he had in his fingers when doing all that spraying, in future work?

https://youtu.be/RfAOdc4wX-c?t=67

I have one of those, it seemed to work, but I never got used to it.

I use these spraytips on Gracey and found them both more comfortable, and to have a better spray pattern. The black are the same tips sold (at a large markup by Stewmac).

Red calligraphy tips
Black calligraphy tips

ap-red-calligraphy-cap-spray-chart-m.jpg

 

aarontunes

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
2,590
DuckBaloo said:
Aaron, did Warmoth's finishing department weight in on your wetsanding dilemma? I thought your disclaimer was pretty comprehensive and straight-forward.


I talked to the execs before doing it, and they said wet sanding was up to me, as long as the disclaimer was included. Our finished department supervisor saw them and said he thought they turned out well, given my debilitating finger injury. #herosjourney He offered to give them the primo shine via their large buffing wheels, but I declined. I like the warts on these particular bodies.


I am glad I wet sanded, and would do it again. Results aside, I find it a more pleasant tactile experience too. The chalky abrasiveness of dry sanding creeps me out.
 

aarontunes

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
2,590
Re-Pete said:
I just opened a video from Davey's World of Fun Stuff, he does guitar repair videos. He's doing a kit guitar build, with spray paints supplied by a sponsor.

I had previously seen Aaron's video for Warmoth and the trigger finger pain he got from spraying so much with a nozzle spray can.

Well, blow me down, Davey had this attachment for his work.... I hope Aaron sees this, it may save that pain he had in his fingers when doing all that spraying, in future work?

https://youtu.be/RfAOdc4wX-c?t=67


I've had many people suggest those to me while recovering from my finger injury. #herosjourney


I will give them a try next time!
 
Top