My second build -Expect Lots of Experimenting

[Watchie]

Alright, I'm on my second build.  The first was a swamp ash Jazzmaster, filled and finished with Tru Oil, no stain.  With a Goncalo/Pau Ferro neck, and GFS pups it came out great.  This next one is for my grandson, and I thought it might be fun to start a thread and post pictures as I go.  More interestingly, I plan to do some experimenting with he finish on this one.

For starters, here is the body.  It's bookmatched ash over two piece ash, rear routed.  So naturally, a lot of filling to do.  For that I chose the Timbermate product, which worked well for my first build.  Most of what I have read on this and other boards recommends two fill/sand-backs.  Naturally, I went with three.  A long day.

BTW, the technique I used to apply the Timbermate was to wipe it on as it comes out of the container (like a putty), and then add some sprinkles of water to get the consistency I wanted.  Additionally, rather than trowel it off I worked it into the pours with my fingers.  After less than an hour it was dry enough to sand back (220), and I saved the powder for reuse, as the manufacturer says can be done (it works).  As a result a little went a long way.

 

[Watchie]

For anyone interested, here is the first build.  I used a Goncalo/Pau Ferro Warmoth modern vintage neck with PW locking tuners.  The pups are from GFS with a Mean 90 in the neck and a Classic II Alnico humbucker in the bridge.  The bridge is from Hipshot.  The neck is crystal clear, with a jazz flair, and the bridge has something of a Tele twang.  The guitar in general has incredible sustain and tone.  Surprised the s*** out of me!

 

[Watchie]

Okay, back to the  present build.  Now that it's filled, I am going to give in an unusual dye job using Fiebings black shoe dye.  Yup, the same still some folks use for ebonizing their rosewood necks.  So far all I have had time for are the pup cavities and control box, but the dye goes on incredibly well, and jet black.  One option from here (once completely dyed) will be to said it back, dye it again but this time using a claret red dye, seal it, the, add one more fill coat with black-dyed Timbermate.  Another option may be to simply leave it jet black, depended on how the grain looks.  Note that while I could seal it before spraying on an alcohol based claret red dye, my desire is to do this whole body with wipe on dyes and a wipe on finish.

 

[Watchie]

Laid on two coats of Fiebings' black leather dye today (same stuff as used to eboonize a fretboard).  Stuff works like a charm.  Lots of absorption and no streaking, wipe lines, etc.  My plan from here is to let it sit a couple of days, and then sand back the face, only.  Hopefully this will leave me with some nice "veining" over which I plan to apply a claret red dye (again, the face of the guitar, only).  We'll see...

BTW, woodworker's tip number 7 - never wear white shorts when applying dye.  Damn that stuff can splatter...

 

[stubhead]

I like the looks of that Jazzmaster, I always have like woody electrics.

The neck is crystal clear, with a jazz flair, and the bridge has something of a Tele twang.

Just out of curiosity, how can you be sure it's not the neck with the Tele twang and the bridge that's crystal clear, with a jazz flair? I'm often confused by that. :dontknow:

 

[Watchie]

Well, when I am using only the neck pup (three-way switch in the forward position), I get a very mellow, rich, clear sound.  Conversely, when I am using only the bridge pup (switch in the rear position), the guitar definitely "twangs."  My guess as to why is a combination of two factors.  First, I have the hardball Hipshot bridge, and second, the GFS Classic II humbucker is wound for what is referred to as a "vintage" sound.

In any case, I like them both, and it provides a lot of versatility.

 

[Watchie]

Went by Woodcrafters today and picked up both some ebony Timbermate and some Behlen blood red dye.  Once I got home it was time to sand back the black Fieblings dye on the face of the guitar.  Once that was done I decided to put one last Timbermate grain fill on it (face only), using the ebony stained product rather than the neutral that was used for the first three go rounds.  Came out as expected, with a lot of very fine black stain in the grain.  After that I laid on three applications of the blood red dye. Given how quickly it dries this went fairly quickly.  The scans below will give you an idea how it turned out.  Needless to say, so far I am quite happy.  The plan for tomorrow is to lay on a couple coats of sanding/sealer, sand that back very carefully, then maybe do one more Timbermate fill on the back, then one more coat of sealer.

Still debating my clear coat.  The Jazzmaster was done using Tru Oil.  I was leaning towards the Behlen Master Gel for this one but unfortunately Woodcrafters does not keep it in stock.  Another alternative they suggested was Waterlox, which is a damn expensive tung oil.  Or I may try the Minwax wipe on poly.

Any thoughts?

 

[DangerousR6]

Looks pretty cool, I think... :headbang:

 

[blueruins]

Looking good :evil4:

 

[Patriot54]

This guitar looks cool, but we need to see some better photos of it

 

[Watchie]

Update:

While the Behlen's blood red dye worked well over the sanded back Fiebings black dye (on the front of the guitar), this was not the case with the back, which was done all with Fiebings.  What I found was that the process of wiping on the Tru Oil was lifting the dye. What I also found, but found out too late, was that this is normal with the first couple coats of Tru Oil over a dye.

In any case, I sanded the back off, refilled it with Timbermate, then dyed it again with Fiebings, followed by a Birchwood Casey sealer/filled.  An even bigger mess. 

So off it all came again, and this time I used some Behlen's black dye, AND I used the spray can Tru Oil for a couple of coats to seal it all in.  So far, so good.  Expect some pics shortly.

 

[Cagey]

Interesting. I would have expected the first problem due to a lack of sealer, and I'm surprised at the second since you did use it. I wonder if this isn't a timing issue. That is, maybe you're going too fast?

 

[Watchie]

Lots of dry time before both the Tru Oil over the dye and the same when I tried the sealer.  With the latter it was worse, as with each wipe I lifted more of the dye.  I called BC for some guidance and they said two things.  First, having used the Timbermate the sealer/sander was not necessary - the Tru Oil would suffice.  Second, they were not sure how the sealer would react with the dye - I would have to experiment.

In any case, all appears well for now. I particularly like the spray.  While likely I will do some wipe coats over over the three "sealer" coats I am putting on now, my plan is to finish with some spray.  This seams to give a nearly flawless finish, with no wipe lines and a very high gloss.

 

[Watchie]

Update:

Well, the Tru Oil went on great, and with few if any significant imperfections due in great measure to having used the spray product. However, when I went to polish all out I ended up with some sand-throughs (in retrospect quite minor but I tend towards trying to get the finish "perfect") and thus I decided to sand it all back and start over using Behlen's Master Gel.

Big mistake. 

While the sand back and re-dye came out fine, the polyurethane Master Gel did not.  First, it is not nearly as self-leveling as claimed.  Yes, at first I applied it in a hot garage (90*+), but even when applied indoors the product had minimal working time, and never quite smoothed out.  But that is not what really turned me off to the product.  In the end, it just lies there, and looks just like others have said polys do - like a plastic finish.  Certainly nothing as rich as the Tru Oil. 

Alas and alack, it is what it is.  Certainly the Master Gel will be durable, and with several coats of a Zaino Bros.  polish it looks acceptable, but going forward all my hand rubbed finishes will be with Tru Oil. 

Or maybe tung????

 

[stubhead]

After the dye, I would definitely do two thin coats of a wax-free shellac, either mixed from flakes or the Bullseye premix from Zinsser.

http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=245

A pint will do three or four guitars. This is just standard operating procedure, to block the dye off from anything else. To apply a water-based poly, I thin it with water by at least 1/4, even 1/3, heck, even 1/2 if it's boogery-sticky thick. Then make a few balls of lint-free t-shirt, with bunched-up t-shirt inside the ball. Read any website about "french polishing", that's what they do. Wet the ball with water, and squeeze it out, then work the thinned poly in with very thin coats. Just get it wet.... I usually do about four or five coats, 45 minutes apart. Then wait two hours, do a fine sanding - 400, like - and only if it needs it. If you do a good job on the raw wood, wetting it, letting it dry, fine sanding, do that three or four times there won't be any hair popping up the rest of the way. Then four or five more thin coats of the poly.  Of course it takes about 12 hours total, but the advantage is your guitar is dry in a week, instead of the month you have to wait after the final Tru-Oil coat.

If you can still smell it, IT AIN'T DRY YET.

I have no idea why all commercial poly comes so thick, I guess to pour it on bar tops and such. ANY time you want a thinner finish, you have to dilute the stuff.

I will do the rest of my necks with Tru-Oil though, I just like the feel better. The great advantage of both these products is that repairing them are a sinch, any play-through pick scratches, or the little hole your right hand pinky makes in a few years. Though I just leave 'em, my tiny contribution to the relicing biz.

 

[partialdoctor]

After the dye, I would definitely do two thin coats of a wax-free shellac, either mixed from flakes or the Bullseye premix from Zinsser.

http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=245

A pint will do three or four guitars. This is just standard operating procedure, to block the dye off from anything else. To apply a water-based poly, I thin it with water by at least 1/4, even 1/3, heck, even 1/2 if it's boogery-sticky thick. Then make a few balls of lint-free t-shirt, with bunched-up t-shirt inside the ball. Read any website about "french polishing", that's what they do. Wet the ball with water, and squeeze it out, then work the thinned poly in with very thin coats. Just get it wet.... I usually do about four or five coats, 45 minutes apart. Then wait two hours, do a fine sanding - 400, like - and only if it needs it. If you do a good job on the raw wood, wetting it, letting it dry, fine sanding, do that three or four times there won't be any hair popping up the rest of the way. Then four or five more thin coats of the poly.  Of course it takes about 12 hours total, but the advantage is your guitar is dry in a week, instead of the month you have to wait after the final Tru-Oil coat.

If you can still smell it, IT AIN'T DRY YET.

I have no idea why all commercial poly comes so thick, I guess to pour it on bar tops and such. ANY time you want a thinner finish, you have to dilute the stuff.

I will do the rest of my necks with Tru-Oil though, I just like the feel better. The great advantage of both these products is that repairing them are a sinch, any play-through pick scratches, or the little hole your right hand pinky makes in a few years. Though I just leave 'em, my tiny contribution to the relicing biz.

First, I'm surprised that you had issues with the Tru-Oil and the dyes. I recently completed a body ising Tru-Oil over Transtint and I had zero issues with the Tru-oil lifting up dye. Everything went perfectly smooth.  As an aside, I also have used Minwax's Tung Oil Finish over dye and it also did not cause any issues.

Second, re: Stub's post... why let Tru-Oil cure a month? I put my final 4 coats on and hung it for 4 days and it handled a 12000 grit and Finesse polish fine without any sandthrough issues. I'm sure waiting longer wouldn't hurt, but I'm impatient as hell.