my kind of "hope and change"

[dbw]

Did you forget the Irish troubles?  The Crusades?

 

[Superlizard]

Did you forget the Irish troubles?  The Crusades?

I'm talking current events (remember, this all goes back to the Ron Paul statement - amazing no? LOL).

Besides that, even if you include all the crimes ever committed by the Catholic church...

How does that give the koran-followers an excuse?

 

[bpmorton777]

Hey Guitouie,

Were you reading "Letters From The Earth"? I think these are the same passages quoted in there.

Brian

 

[GoDrex]

you're off making snarky ad hominem attacks

I'm not going to argue because clearly I'm not up to SL's level, but I can't believe he's got the nerve to say this. Actually I shouldn't be surprised.

 

[Rick]

You guys are making Ron Paul roll over in his grave.

 

[tfarny]

Yeah Gary, SL has me cornered in a rhetorical full nelson and I just keep making smarmy ad hominem attacks in desperation, as well as pretending to be nice to all the reasonable people on this board. It's kind of funny I guess.

 

[Superlizard]

you're off making snarky ad hominem attacks

I'm not going to argue because clearly I'm not up to SL's level, but I can't believe he's got the nerve to say this. Actually I shouldn't be surprised.

For the record, you're also not one to talk.  :icon_thumright:

 

[Superlizard]

You guys are making Ron Paul roll over in his grave.

LOL... the poor bastid.  I heard he likes Michael Jackson anyways.

 

[Superlizard]

Yeah Gary, SL has me cornered in a rhetorical full nelson and I just keep making smarmy ad hominem attacks in desperation, as well as pretending to be nice to all the reasonable people on this board. It's kind of funny I guess.

Please don't hate me because I'm beautiful.  :icon_biggrin:

 

[Mor Paul]

Just throwing this in here...
Don't many verses, even translated multiple times, come out differently, simply because of the times and language differences? It's that way with the Bible, at least.

EDIT: Crap.. Missed a post detailing that already.

 

[tfarny]

Hey since this is the dedicated politics thread right now, I'm going to link to an article I enjoyed a lot, regarding the depression, Roosevelt, and rewriting history to try and gain a political advantage. Lots of cable TV talking heads are nattering on about this subject at the moment.  http://www.tnr.com/booksarts/story.html?id=82c53220-7594-4ece-a136-a3b2f54243ec

 

[guitlouie]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.  It's ok because someone else does it, too.  That is exactly my argument.  I certainly wasn't saying that you can't blame a whole religion for what a select group following that religion interperets out of what they read, then takes it to extreme ends.  I certainly was not saying that maybe you don't understand said religion as well as you think you do just because you googled some quotes from their texts.  I ceratainly wasn't saying that maybe some of  "those people"  googled some quotes from another religion and thought that they meant that those religious folks are out to get them.  And I certainly was not saying that even though our country happens to be much more stable in a security sense, religous extremists still manage to perform acts of violence against others.  Nope, you had it right on the nose as usual, I was saying that it is OK for religous extremists to make this world a lot less safe.  How DO I live with myself?

 

[GoDrex]

some of you guys might find this entertaining:

[noembed]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5267640865741878159[/noembed] - - Robert Newman's History of Oil

it's kind of long (45 minutes) - but it's pretty funny

 

[tfarny]

See, GL, I told you it would be fun!

 

[Superlizard]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.  It's ok because someone else does it, too.  That is exactly my argument.  I certainly wasn't saying that you can't blame a whole religion for what a select group following that religion interperets out of what they read, then takes it to extreme ends.   I certainly was not saying that maybe you don't understand said religion as well as you think you do just because you googled some quotes from their texts.  I ceratainly wasn't saying that maybe some of  "those people"  googled some quotes from another religion and thought that they meant that those religious folks are out to get them.  And I certainly was not saying that even though our country happens to be much more stable in a security sense, religous extremists still manage to perform acts of violence against others.  Nope, you had it right on the nose as usual, I was saying that it is OK for religous extremists to make this world a lot less safe.   How DO I live with myself?

Well, if we follow your previous logic, that's exactly what you are saying.  Instead of answering my original question (what religious movement is this?), you put your hand over your eyes and pointed in another direction.  And later on, you didn't even bother to address the verses which I painstakingly dug up for you at your request... just dismissed them with a simple "misinterpretation" stamp and somehow they magically became a non-issue.

Of course, I'm sure that's not the case with your opinion.  This is just a case whereupon your logic simply doesn't follow your opinion; for whatever reason.

Nevertheless, as I have pointed out earlier, claiming "misinterpretation" with 'strike off the heads of the unbelievers', 'fight the unbelievers' and the other koran verses I used as examples is a very hard sell - there's nothing to misinterpret.  Furthermore, there's no historical context - no past tense - with said verses, either (as is the case with the old testament; which is the history of the Jewish people).

And of course, it is because of these very lucid and clear verses that I make the statement that those who are doing the headcutting and suicide bombing are the true followers.  This statement is as obvious as the nose on your face.  A statement which also, in turn (and going back to the original point), proves my opinion on Ron Paul's statement:

Totally disagree with the "terrorist threat being a consequence of meddling in the affairs of others"... completely, 1100% disagree.

 

[Soylent]

I like guitars to build and play.  :icon_scratch:

 

[DocNrock]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.  It's ok because someone else does it, too.  That is exactly my argument.  I certainly wasn't saying that you can't blame a whole religion for what a select group following that religion interperets out of what they read, then takes it to extreme ends.   I certainly was not saying that maybe you don't understand said religion as well as you think you do just because you googled some quotes from their texts.  I ceratainly wasn't saying that maybe some of  "those people"  googled some quotes from another religion and thought that they meant that those religious folks are out to get them.  And I certainly was not saying that even though our country happens to be much more stable in a security sense, religous extremists still manage to perform acts of violence against others.  Nope, you had it right on the nose as usual, I was saying that it is OK for religous extremists to make this world a lot less safe.   How DO I live with myself?

Well, if we follow your previous logic, that's exactly what you are saying.  Instead of answering my original question (what religious movement is this?), you put your hand over your eyes and pointed in another direction.  And later on, you didn't even bother to address the verses which I painstakingly dug up for you at your request... just dismissed them with a simple "misinterpretation" stamp and somehow they magically became a non-issue.

Of course, I'm sure that's not the case with your opinion.  This is just a case whereupon your logic simply doesn't follow your opinion; for whatever reason.

Nevertheless, as I have pointed out earlier, claiming "misinterpretation" with 'strike off the heads of the unbelievers', 'fight the unbelievers' and the other koran verses I used as examples is a very hard sell - there's nothing to misinterpret.  Furthermore, there's no historical context - no past tense - with said verses, either (as is the case with the old testament; which is the history of the Jewish people).

And of course, it is because of these very lucid and clear verses that I make the statement that those who are doing the headcutting and suicide bombing are the true followers.  This statement is as obvious as the nose on your face.  A statement which also, in turn (and going back to the original point), proves my opinion on Ron Paul's statement:

Totally disagree with the "terrorist threat being a consequence of meddling in the affairs of others"... completely, 1100% disagree.

I'm likely going to regret getting involved in this, but here goes.

I agree that both the Koran and the Bible have passages that can be interpreted to kill their respective infidels.  The difference is that those in Western cultures, where at least currently "Christianity values" are in the majority, are in general more sociologically advanced.  The majority of Muslim countries have 3rd world conditions and education for the majority of the non-elites.  It is the vocal minority of these who seem to be "jihadists." 

And I completely agree with Ron Paul's assessment as to the origins of terrorism.  I believe it is a direct result of our foreign policy, particularly as it relates to oil, that continues to foster terrorism.  If you haven't seen Syriana, I recommend renting it.  My opinion is far more educated than simply watching a movie, but that movie really puts the story out there.

 

[kboman]

I like guitars to build and play.  :icon_scratch:

Yeah. Guitars rock.

 

[Superlizard]

The majority of Muslim countries have 3rd world conditions and education for the majority of the non-elites.

Interesting you mention that.  At one time in the distant past, they were top dog.

But seems their religion doesn't allow for a little thing called progress (when your religion is oppressive and you
follow sharia law, there's not much freedom to go around).  And one major thing they need some serious progress in
is how they treat their women... hell, these a$$holes are bringing their honor-killing traditions over on to American soil.

They're not still stuck in 700AD days because of others; they have only themselves, their sharia law and their korans to blame.

 

[Lucky #7]

That's just a silly statement.  They're suffering from the same subversion of their religion by a powerful few that Christianity suffered in the middle ages.  Their religion makes it a bit easier, but to say it is all their fault is just a massive oversimplification of a very complicated issue.