my kind of "hope and change"
- Thread starter dbw
- Start date
- Status
Superlizard
Hero Member
- Messages
- 2,514
tfarny said:
"highly placed people"
who?
Who are these shadowy (and undoubtedly reptilian) overlord figures hiding the truth?
(Am I actually living a real life X-Files episode here?)
tfarny said:
"to no benefit whatsoever"
Except our own defense... and who wants that, anyways? :icon_biggrin:
tfarny said:
Why is that way too much? And at what exact point does defense spending become "way too much"?
Super Turbo Deluxe Custom
Epic Member
- Messages
- 8,318
Wow. Some nice reads there. One thing that occurs to me is this. Defense contracts do help the economy. Big time around these parts. Bell Helicopter, Raytheon, Texas Instruments, Lockheed Martin, Halliburton, and Vought Systems just to name a few all have multiple facilities here in North Texas. I've done electrical work in a few (even in DangerousR6's place of employment, although not defense related). With even a slight budget cut, the layoffs start to role. It would make the auto-industry related jobs dwarf in comparison. War, or preparation for, feeds and clothes parts of this county. While working at one plant I thought it was strange that there were bible verses and the like adorning people's cubicles. It's ironic because they make their living by how efficiently their company's products can kill people.
We just don't see eye to eye on the supposed "fraud" involved in defense contracts. I just don't see it that way. Everybody points to Halliburton like they were some unknown before Cheney.
And going along with Super Turbo, given the number of defense jobs in the state of Texas, you're going to have a hard time convincing Texans that it is somehow evil. It's not. Neither is oil for that matter. Am I biased? Probably. The two have done a pretty solid job of insulating our state from a lot of the economic downturn seen in other places. You eliminate that and I watch a lot of people first hand lose their jobs.
As to NASA, I don't have a great deal of time to research, but suffice to say I don't think it is the worthless money pit many of you seem to. I live less than ten miles from it. You don't like the product? Then look at it as a program that does have some value that provides a good living for thousands upon thousands of people.
And going along with Super Turbo, given the number of defense jobs in the state of Texas, you're going to have a hard time convincing Texans that it is somehow evil. It's not. Neither is oil for that matter. Am I biased? Probably. The two have done a pretty solid job of insulating our state from a lot of the economic downturn seen in other places. You eliminate that and I watch a lot of people first hand lose their jobs.
As to NASA, I don't have a great deal of time to research, but suffice to say I don't think it is the worthless money pit many of you seem to. I live less than ten miles from it. You don't like the product? Then look at it as a program that does have some value that provides a good living for thousands upon thousands of people.
Superlizard
Hero Member
- Messages
- 2,514
Puggles here knows there's somethin' all fishy and stuff up yonder in Hali...
What if Ron Paul were here 50 or 60 years ago? We wouldn't have a lot of the problems we have now. Unfortunately he wasn't and now there are people in the world that hate us. It was a result of stupid decisions. However, those decisions were made and cannot be undone. Because we made mistakes does that mean we are supposed to sit by and wait for them to come to us? He raises good questions, but I'm just not certain there are any good solutions. I also fervently disagree with his assertion that we are empire building.
I work a few miles from his office on Galveston Island. I think he is an incredibly smart man, and my disagreements aside, I wish he would win the Republican nomination.
I work a few miles from his office on Galveston Island. I think he is an incredibly smart man, and my disagreements aside, I wish he would win the Republican nomination.
O
OzziePete
Guest
Seems to me, in the above clip that Mr. Paul was saying, in summary, that if you pee on your neighbour's roses, they are likely to get annoyed and poison your hedge? :icon_scratch:
Kinda late here, but I just read through this thread and had a few thoughts.
First, I will see a tax increase under Obama's plan. That is OK with me. I'm doing fine and there are infrastructure needs that need to be addressed. I can only hope that the massive deficit spending bill, once passed, will actually help the economy.
I agree wholeheartedly with Tfarny. His arguments have been very cogent, IMHO. It would also appear that GoDrex and I agree. I found the Ron Paul clip spot on. Superlizard commented that rich people employ, and he is partly correct. That said, when you have the erosion of the middle class that we currently have, consumption goes down. If consumption goes down, the rich people are no longer rich. Then they can't employ, then consumption goes down further, and you have a vicious cycle.
Supply-side economics cannot exist without demand-side.
First, I will see a tax increase under Obama's plan. That is OK with me. I'm doing fine and there are infrastructure needs that need to be addressed. I can only hope that the massive deficit spending bill, once passed, will actually help the economy.
I agree wholeheartedly with Tfarny. His arguments have been very cogent, IMHO. It would also appear that GoDrex and I agree. I found the Ron Paul clip spot on. Superlizard commented that rich people employ, and he is partly correct. That said, when you have the erosion of the middle class that we currently have, consumption goes down. If consumption goes down, the rich people are no longer rich. Then they can't employ, then consumption goes down further, and you have a vicious cycle.
Supply-side economics cannot exist without demand-side.
Superlizard
Hero Member
- Messages
- 2,514
Totally disagree with the "terrorist threat being a consequence of meddling in the affairs of others"... completely, 1100% disagree.
There's a particular religious movement that started around 700AD with the major goal of spreading throughout the entire world:
- This religious movement, from its inception, conquered other nations with the simple precept of "convert or die"
- This religious movement was only stopped from expanding into the West by men like Charles Martel... if it wasn't for men like him, the West would have been conquered as well
- This religious movement is large and active to this day, and its goal of spreading throughout the entire world hasn't changed
- This religious movement has been at war with the rest of the world since its inception
- 31 of 41 current wars involve this religious movement http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/
Can you name this religious movement?
ADDENDUM: I can't give Ron Paul the "really smart" label because he obviously doesn't know his history.
There's a particular religious movement that started around 700AD with the major goal of spreading throughout the entire world:
- This religious movement, from its inception, conquered other nations with the simple precept of "convert or die"
- This religious movement was only stopped from expanding into the West by men like Charles Martel... if it wasn't for men like him, the West would have been conquered as well
- This religious movement is large and active to this day, and its goal of spreading throughout the entire world hasn't changed
- This religious movement has been at war with the rest of the world since its inception
- 31 of 41 current wars involve this religious movement http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/
Can you name this religious movement?
ADDENDUM: I can't give Ron Paul the "really smart" label because he obviously doesn't know his history.
G
guitlouie
Guest
The roman catholic church?
Superlizard
Hero Member
- Messages
- 2,514
guitlouie said:
The roman catholic church is involved in 31 of 41 current wars?
Super Turbo Deluxe Custom
Epic Member
- Messages
- 8,318
Well, it jives right along with most of this country's distain for the rich. The U.S. plays Santa Claus to the rest of the world, and they hate us for it.
To paint this as a religious war is true and untrue at the same time. #1, you always demonize your enemy. We did it with the Declaration of Independence, "Endowed by the Creator, certain inalienable rights?" If you're against that, you're against God, right? The same with this movement. I seriously doubt the sincerity of a suicide bomber's religious motives. However, I don't doubt their leaders conveniently using/twisting their beliefs to demonize us and justify any means necessary. So, this is not a religious war to us, but it is to them.
To paint this as a religious war is true and untrue at the same time. #1, you always demonize your enemy. We did it with the Declaration of Independence, "Endowed by the Creator, certain inalienable rights?" If you're against that, you're against God, right? The same with this movement. I seriously doubt the sincerity of a suicide bomber's religious motives. However, I don't doubt their leaders conveniently using/twisting their beliefs to demonize us and justify any means necessary. So, this is not a religious war to us, but it is to them.
G
guitlouie
Guest
What I'm saying, there, buddy old pal, is that there is more than one religion with a violent history and a convert or die ultimatum.
GL: Enjoy your enlightening discussion of world religion and history with SuperLim. After he reads a book or maybe two on the subject I'll be glad to join in.
STDC: It's not my impression that the US acts as a Santa Claus, by a very long shot. We do give a healthy amount of foreign aid (2nd in the world after Japan I believe, and something like 1/50th of our defense budget), but we tie it pretty tightly to conditions which are pretty favorable to us. For instance, we might give foreign aid in the form of US-produced goods which flood a local market and bankrupt a local company. Or we might exchange aid on condition of allowing a military base on their soil. Not saying that's what always happens, or even usually, and I don't think that's always wrong, but I suspect you'd not find as much pure Santa behavior as the government (dem or rep) would like you to believe. We are viewed as playing the hardest of hardball around the world, on every continent, and there's lots of history to back up that view, none of it requiring tinfoil hats, though SL's pictures of cute little kitties and doggies do garner some sympathy from my poor liberal bleeding heart.
Doc: I know there are tons of reasonable republicans out there. Nice that you're in the 'reality-based community' as progressives like to say. :icon_thumright:
STDC: It's not my impression that the US acts as a Santa Claus, by a very long shot. We do give a healthy amount of foreign aid (2nd in the world after Japan I believe, and something like 1/50th of our defense budget), but we tie it pretty tightly to conditions which are pretty favorable to us. For instance, we might give foreign aid in the form of US-produced goods which flood a local market and bankrupt a local company. Or we might exchange aid on condition of allowing a military base on their soil. Not saying that's what always happens, or even usually, and I don't think that's always wrong, but I suspect you'd not find as much pure Santa behavior as the government (dem or rep) would like you to believe. We are viewed as playing the hardest of hardball around the world, on every continent, and there's lots of history to back up that view, none of it requiring tinfoil hats, though SL's pictures of cute little kitties and doggies do garner some sympathy from my poor liberal bleeding heart.
Doc: I know there are tons of reasonable republicans out there. Nice that you're in the 'reality-based community' as progressives like to say. :icon_thumright:
Superlizard
Hero Member
- Messages
- 2,514
guitlouie said:
That's fine, but I'm not seeing what that has to do with my question.
What religious movement currently fits the criteria I posted? Do you know?
(and no, it isn't the roman catholic church heheh)
- Status
Similar threads
