Looking for some general information on carved top LP

[runner]

Hey Guys... I'm looking at buying my second guitar.  Just started playing 11 months ago and I'm loving it.  Now I'm ready to buy a good guitar.  I just wanted to ask a few question to you guys since you all play Warmoth guitars. 

1) Bolt-ons:

I'm a little concerned about guitars with bolt-on necks. I don't have any personal experience with bolt-ons but I've read opinions on other forums that bolt-ons don't give you as much sustain.  What do you Warmoth owners have to say about this?

2) Chambered body

I'm interested in the LP style but I don't like the heavy weight of the Gibson LPs.  Does the chambered body option on the carved top LP give much weight relief?  Also, how does the chambered option affect the tone of the LP?  Is there enough mass left to give that traditional LP sound?

3) Contoured heel

I saw where Warmoth has a contoured heel on their carved top LP.  How significant is the contoured heel at providing better upper fret access that the original LP? 

4) Head stock

I'd be getting the LP 24 3/4 conversion neck with angled headstock... matching the look of the original Gibson neck.  I know that Gibson necks have problems with breakage due to the wood grain where the headstock angles back.  I also heard that Warmoth doesn't have that problem because they glue the headstock to the neck and eliminate the breakage problems.  Can someone verify this?

Thanks for any info you can provide.  I'd normally ask the mfgr these questions but since I'm fairly new to guitar I'd rather hear from actual users of their equipment.  Thanks again!

P.S.  By the way, my current guitar is a Gibson SG Special.  It's not a bad guitar, I really like the light weight but I hate the looks.  I've always wanted a LP but I hated the heavy weight and the upper fret access.  When I heard about Warmoth, I saw they had the chambered option and the contoured heel and now I'm taking a seriously closer look. 

--
Andy

 

[jackthehack]

You can get bit as much sustain with a bolt on as a set neck.

A chambered Warmoth LP body will shave about a pound off the weight of the typical Gibson LP if you're using the same wood choices, but can go lighter/heavier depending on what wood you order.

Contoured heel provides a bit better upper fret access than a std LP, but if you're real used to playing an SG, it's still going to seem fat/chunky/ as tretch in comparison.

Take it from a klutz who's knocked pegheads off of multiple Gibsons on several occasions, the scarf joints on a Warmoth neck will take more abuse than a std. Gibson.

 

[Telenator]

Hey Guys... I'm looking at buying my second guitar.  Just started playing 11 months ago and I'm loving it.  Now I'm ready to buy a good guitar.  I just wanted to ask a few question to you guys since you all play Warmoth guitars. 

1) Bolt-ons:

I'm a little concerned about guitars with bolt-on necks. I don't have any personal experience with bolt-ons but I've read opinions on other forums that bolt-ons don't give you as much sustain.  What do you Warmoth owners have to say about this?

Sustain is one of those stupid, highly over rated attributes of guitars that people seem to hold sacred for some unknown reason. How often do you see someone strum a chord and just stand there for several seconds as the sustain slowly decays? It's dumb and pointless. Any guitar will sustain as well as any other if it is build and adjusted properly.

2) Chambered body

I'm interested in the LP style but I don't like the heavy weight of the Gibson LPs.  Does the chambered body option on the carved top LP give much weight relief?  Also, how does the chambered option affect the tone of the LP?  Is there enough mass left to give that traditional LP sound?

It's just my personal opinion but, I don't like chambered bodies on a Les Paul for two reasons. 1) They lose something when they're chambered. A Les Paul, (maple over solid mahogany), sounds the way it does because of the way it's made and the materieals used. It is also made to played at high volume. A Les Paul, to my ears, doesn't even begin to sound like a Les Paul until it's turned up loud and rerally starts to hum in the context of the music. The sound is bold, fat, and cutting like no other guitar out there. A couple years ago, I was looking for a lighter, chambered Les Paul and played several but they just diddn't have the guts the solid ones do. If you're going to go with a chambered body, you may as well go with most any other style because the magic is gone when you remove the wood. Some may disagree, but hey, it's only my experience. 2) Chambered bodies sometimes cause a guitar to be imbalanced and uncomfortable when played while standing. If the body isn't heavy enough, the neck tends to tilt towards the floor forcing the player to hold it up as well as play. Not for me. In my building experience, once I get below a 4 lb body, I start having balance issues with them.

3) Contoured heel

I saw where Warmoth has a contoured heel on their carved top LP.  How significant is the contoured heel at providing better upper fret access that the original LP?  You just started playing 11 months ago? Don't worry about the heel and take it from an older guy, "All the money is made below the 12th fret anyway!' LOL! If I were you,I'd get more focused on my rhythm chops at this stage of the game and not sweat the contoured heel. Personaly, I find that a big part of the Les Paul tone is from it's mass. I like a good size platform to bolt the neck to and have never worried about the heel. Yeah, it's there, and people have been making incredible music for years without the contour. I would leave it alone.

4) Head stock

I'd be getting the LP 24 3/4 conversion neck with angled headstock... matching the look of the original Gibson neck.  I know that Gibson necks have problems with breakage due to the wood grain where the headstock angles back.  I also heard that Warmoth doesn't have that problem because they glue the headstock to the neck and eliminate the breakage problems.  Can someone verify this?

This is true. In the 70's Gibson started making their necks with a volute at the back of the nut. This effectively made the neck thicker at the critical breakage point and therefore more durable. The volute was a nice shape and added strength where the neck was weak because of the  wood grain orientation. On my hand built guitars, I make all my necks with a volute behind the nut. I like the look and the added strength. Here's one of my scratch built necks with a volute.

Thanks for any info you can provide.  I'd normally ask the mfgr these questions but since I'm fairly new to guitar I'd rather hear from actual users of their equipment.  Thanks again!

P.S.  By the way, my current guitar is a Gibson SG Special.  It's not a bad guitar, I really like the light weight but I hate the looks.  I've always wanted a LP but I hated the heavy weight and the upper fret access.  When I heard about Warmoth, I saw they had the chambered option and the contoured heel and now I'm taking a seriously closer look. 

If you play an SG, you probably know what it's like to play a light body guitar and have experienced the way the neck tilts because the body is too light. Bear that in mind when you conside a lightweight body for your Les Paul project. If you don't have this problem with your SG, you're very lucky! Have a great time building your new guitar!!!

--
Andy

 

[GoDrex]

I have a chambered LP.

It's perfectly balanced on a strap - not too heavy, not too light. Mine is all mahogany, like the black beauty. I'm glad I got it chambered for the weight. I feel like it's not heavy at all, but also not super light. It feels very solid and substantial to me. It's similar in weight to my strat, which feels very solid and comfortable. They never feel like they're weighing heavy on my shoulder. IMO, the LP shape is a very balanced shape due to the top part of the body extending far up the neck. My LP hangs with it's neck up at a perfect angle for comfortable playing. The body would have to be much lighter for the neck to become too heavy.

here's a thread discussing chambered bodies - it's got some differing opinions on the effects:
http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=5332.msg62779#msg62779

I do think the hollow option body has a small effect on tone. I find it to be a positive thing, mainly because it makes it different from my other guitars. I think the attack of the notes is a bit softer, but that also could be because the guitar is all mahogany with a rosewood fretboard.

I don't mind the bolt on neck at all. I've owned set neck guitars and bolt-ons and never though set necks were all that special after owning them for a while. I do like the fact that I can easily replace my bolt on necks if anything happens to them. So many of my favorite players and many many more use bolt-on style guitars that it's never been an issue for me. If they didn't work, no one would use them. This is clearly not the case.

I kind of feel like there's some sort of superstition regarding how necks are attached, as if bolt-ons are OK for Fenders and tons of other types of guitars, but the LP body shape just shouldn't have a bolt on. Right or wrong this might be impossible for some people to get past. These people should not buy a Warmoth LP and should get a Gibson or other set neck type guitar. That way they'll never feel weird or unsure about what they're buying. I totally understand this way of thinking as I have certain irrational guitar beliefs myself that I have a hard time getting past. But the neck thing isn't one of them. I got a Warmoth LP only because I wanted a type of guitar I couldn't find elsewhere. I'm very happy with mine. If you're worried that your Warmoth LP won't be exactly like a Gibson, then you should buy a Gibson. Of course remember to do some research, because Gibson now chambers their LPs. I think there is some version of LP now that isn't chambered, but I'm not sure which.

I think the contour heal is nice, it helps a little but it's not drastic. The LP comes with it. If I build another guitar I'll get it just to have that little extra comfort. My strat doesn't have a contoured heal and I never notice it, but I think that's because the upper cut away make a difference. So... I think it helps a little bit on an LP due to there being no upper cut away, so every little bit counts, but it's not a huge difference. I haven't played a Gibson LP in a long time so I can't compare. I'm sure someone else around here can help in that respect.

 

[runner]

Thanks for all the info!  I'm pretty sure I'm going to be placing an order before the end of the year.  I never knew about Warmoth guitars until last week so it's taking me a while to get up to speed.  I accidentally stumbled on to GoDrex's gold top project while googling and I was so impressed with the quality of the work that I had to find out more about Warmoth.  I never knew you could create a custom guitar for such a reasonable price.  Thanks again for the info...

--
Andy

 

[tfarny]

I've owned a couple of real les pauls and I have a non-chambered warmoth LP now that I like much more. The bolt-on versus set neck thing is complete bs - mainly it comes from Gibson marketing. This warmoth 'sustains' longer than any guitar I've ever had.
Chambering an LP - I'm torn. I do think that the heaviness is an important part of the LP "sound", but dang it is heavy. Contoured heel is nice and it's standard on a warmoth LP. I would get it on any warmoth. The warmoth angled headstocks are very,  very solid, probably stronger than a one-piece strat neck and definitely stronger than Gibson's design. We've had some discussion about this.
Good luck, don't buy into the set neck hype, and post pics of your finished guitar!

 

[Patrick from Davis]

To chime in on this, the chambering does lighten up the body, and makes it a bit more alive.  If you like to play metal music, this would probably be a detriment.  The balance thing, with a Wenge neck it is very close to wanting to dive, but it doesn't.  I don't really notice the contoured neck pocket, but I played a strat and a tele without one for decades, then moved to acoustics.  Bottom line is it is very nice if you are used to that, but not necessary by any means.  The sustain thing, I honestly think that there is so much that goes into what a guitar sound like that matters more than the neck pocket that you would probably never know the difference.  I do hear a difference between a floating bridge and a fixed bridge.  Imagine that.  If you are new to all of this, read up and look into an unfinished neck.  It may spoil guitars with finished necks for you, but heck, if you are going to build one look into all of the options.  And stainless steel frets, don't forget those...
Patrick

 

[GoDrex]

Thanks for all the info!  I'm pretty sure I'm going to be placing an order before the end of the year.  I never knew about Warmoth guitars until last week so it's taking me a while to get up to speed.  I accidentally stumbled on to GoDrex's gold top project while googling and I was so impressed with the quality of the work that I had to find out more about Warmoth.  I never knew you could create a custom guitar for such a reasonable price.   Thanks again for the info...

hehehe my experience with this guitar didn't scare you off? I'm glad.  :icon_thumright:

 

[RLW]

The contoured heel is a non-issue for me, as I've probably spent less than 1% of my guitar playing life anywhere near that portion of the fretboard.

:evil4:

 

[nathan a]

The contoured heel is a non-issue for me, as I've probably spent less than 1% of my guitar playing life anywhere near that portion of the fretboard.

:evil4:

:icon_thumright: I am a member of that club too.

 

[-CB-]

P.S.  By the way, my current guitar is a Gibson SG Special.  It's not a bad guitar, I really like the light weight but I hate the looks.  I've always wanted a LP but I hated the heavy weight and the upper fret access.  When I heard about Warmoth, I saw they had the chambered option and the contoured heel and now I'm taking a seriously closer look. 

Keep in mind, the new 2007 and later Les Pauls are chambered.  All of them.  Except the Historic models, the Cloud Nine (is that still available?) and the "Traditional" (which has the swiss cheeze holes instead of chambers).

My LP "Traditional" (or pre-Trad, swiss cheeze Lester) is moderately heavy, about like a mahogany solid Tele or hard ash Tele.

My LP BFG is chambered, and feather light, like a thinline.

Neither has the GREAT upper access that an SG has though.  SG's are #2 in fret access, behind the venerable Flying-V

 

[Shandrazar]

Can I ask why you are planning to build a guitar rather than buy a pre-made one commercially?  Buying a bunch of parts retail really and bolting them together isn't cheaper than buying a commercial guitar, where all the parts were bought wholesale.  Building a guitar makes sense only if you are looking for some combination of components not available commercially, or if you want to be able to take pride in playing a guitar you built yourself.

A  Warmoth carved top Les Paul body starts at $305, and mahogany LP or Warmoth style neck starts at $213.  That's $518 unfinished and $803 if you have Warmoth finish them for you (I'm assuming a dye job).  Pickups, tuning machines, a bridge, pots, caps, knobs, etc. are going to cost you at least $200 for relatively low end stuff and can go up quite a bit from that.  In other words, building your guitar will cost you at least $700+ if you finish it yourself, and can go well over $1000 if you have Warmoth finish it and use quality components.

What is your budget?  This spring I was looking at Les Pauls style guitars myself.  The good Epiphone Les Pauls start at about $500, and there are good Les Paul style guitars in the $500 to $1000 range from makers like PRS, ESP, and others.  If you can go $1000 to $2000 you start to look at Gibsons, as well as the other makers.  I suggest that in this price range you seriously consider the Carvin CS series.  I bought a CS6 and I love it.

 

[tfarny]

Shandrazar, nobody on here bothers to build our own and talk about it constantly if we're just looking for the cheapest thing out there. Are you saying that an Epiphone Les Paul is a good as a Warmoth? Have you owned both?
The whole point of Warmoth is to get something unique and customizable for reasonable prices. The more accurate price comparison would be to Gibson custom shop.
Also notice that the OP didn't mention cost and already owns a Gibson SG.

 

[runner]

Shandrazar... my budget is $1500.  I've always wanted a gold top but the Gibson Slash Sig gold top retails for $3500 (or is it $4500?  no matter, I can't afford either) and that's if you can get one.  I'm not too impressed with the Epiphone (sp?) gold tops and I think the Warmoth option will give me a better product.  So basically I never considered buying a gold top until I learned about Warmoth.  Now I feel the possibility is actually within reach to have one.  A genuine new Gibson Les Paul Studio will run me about the same ($1500) but I don't want a plain Jane guitar just like 20,000 other people have.  Warmoth gives me a cost effective alternative to have my dream guitar and have it be a unique build with better quality parts than the Epiphone.  That brings up a point:  do the Epiphones have the same problems with headstocks breaking because of the one piece neck?  Just curious if Epiphone uses the same neck construction as the Gibson models.

I already have an SD Alnico Pro and SD Pearly Gates that I was going to put in my SG but I think I'm going to save them for the Warmoth now.  So I won't need to buy pickups.

It's all GoDrex's fault, if I hadn't seen his gold top project I would still be happy with my SG.

 

[Shandrazar]

Shandrazar... my budget is $1500.  I've always wanted a gold top but the Gibson Slash Sig gold top retails for $3500 (or is it $4500?  no matter, I can't afford either) and that's if you can get one.  I'm not too impressed with the Epiphone (sp?) gold tops and I think the Warmoth option will give me a better product.  So basically I never considered buying a gold top until I learned about Warmoth.  Now I feel the possibility is actually within reach to have one.  A genuine new Gibson Les Paul Studio will run me about the same ($1500) but I don't want a plain Jane guitar just like 20,000 other people have.  Warmoth gives me a cost effective alternative to have my dream guitar and have it be a unique build with better quality parts than the Epiphone.  That brings up a point:  do the Epiphones have the same problems with headstocks breaking because of the one piece neck?  Just curious if Epiphone uses the same neck construction as the Gibson models.

I already have an SD Alnico Pro and SD Pearly Gates that I was going to put in my SG but I think I'm going to save them for the Warmoth now.  So I won't need to buy pickups.

It's all GoDrex's fault, if I hadn't seen his gold top project I would still be happy with my SG.

OK, that helps a lot.  You want to build your own guitar because you want something unique, and you have the budget to do it right.  That is exactly what I was hoping to hear.  When I read that you had been playing for less than a year, I wasn't sure if you had realistic expectations on what you could do with a given amount of money. 

I've been considering building a Warmoth off and on for a couple of months now, but I've never owned one.  I've never heard anything bad about their quality.  A used Epiphone Les Paul was my second electric guitar.  It was good for the price, but not in the league of what you can buy or build with your budget.  It went to my nephew a couple of years ago, so I don't remember the neck construction.

 

[GoDrex]

It's all GoDrex's fault, if I hadn't seen his gold top project I would still be happy with my SG.

uh oh I feel pressure now - your guitar better turn out nice

check out this one btw:
http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=2386.0

that's a lot more traditional than mine. Mine is a gold top that didn't exist.

 

[NonsenseTele]

What kind of music do you play?

Depending on the style I would say Black Korina (alike tone with less weight) instead of the chambers... As far as depending of the style, chambers would be a good choice...

Gregg and others guys told that the chambers on LP don't affect the tone as much as in Strats, etc because of the top, you still have 5/8" of wood there... Anyway, for punchy rock tones I would not have a chambered body, while many others I would be ok...

Be sure that the way Warmoth does their angled headstock is the best way to do... The Gibson way (one piece neck) is the worse in angled headstocks, IMO and in the opinion of many luthiers that I know...

What is going to come from this project (specs)???

Welcome to the forum!  ccasion14:

 

[runner]

I hate to say this (because I'm an old fart) but I think half the fun of playing guitar, or any other activity, is playing around with all the gadgets and hardware.  It's fun to mess with cool gear and tinker with pickups, amps etc.

My favorite band is GnR so I am working on their songs right now hence the SD Alnico II Pro for the neck.   I also like just about any hard rock out there from the 70's and 80's that's why I got the Pearly Gates pickup for the bridge position.  I like that metal sound from Metalica's Enter Sandman song.  Will be learning that one next.  Too bad I can't get one guitar to play everything.  Guitar Rig software helps.

I haven't settled completely on every option so I'll hold out until I finish my research.

 

[Orpheo]

What kind of music do you play?

Depending on the style I would say Black Korina (alike tone with less weight) instead of the chambers... As far as depending of the style, chambers would be a good choice...

Gregg and others guys told that the chambers on LP don't affect the tone as much as in Strats, etc because of the top, you still have 5/8" of wood there... Anyway, for punchy rock tones I would not have a chambered body, while many others I would be ok...

Be sure that the way Warmoth does their angled headstock is the best way to do... The Gibson way (one piece neck) is the worse in angled headstocks, IMO and in the opinion of many luthiers that I know...

What is going to come from this project (specs)???

Welcome to the forum!  ccasion14:

no, this is the best way:

laminated with apposing grains, volute, angled headstock, but still the headstock not glued on. thats whats best, but warmoths scarf joint is the best compromis.

 

[Mor Paul]

More purple, I see.