Keeping a Wilkinson in Tune

[dmraco]

Well christmas has arrived and my son has been jamming on his new warmoth LP!  Sounds great!  A real rock and roll machine. 

THe question I have is with the Wilkinson whammy, with even the slightest use on the whammy, is goes out of tune, especially the third string.  I am using a graphite nut with Planet Waves tuners.  Any tips on fine tuning thw whammy to help keep it in tune??

Does the alignment of the springs have much to do with anything?  I notice some use different configurations.

Thanks

 

[GoDrex]

Is it going sharp?

I've found with my planet waves tuners that they're a little different than regular tuners. I noticed the G-string going out of tune a bit sometimes. I found that if I tuned it UP and then did a bend of pull on the string it would sometimes go flat. Then I would tune it up again and did a bend again it would stay in tune. Try doing that a few times.

With my strat what I usually do is tune it up and play it a little bit to kind of warm things up a little and then I'll test the bar by pushing it down as far as it will go and letting it back up. Then I'll test the tuning and adjust and do it again (some strings would usually go sharp). By that time it usually stays in tune pretty well. I have schaller locking tuners on that guitar.

btw - Fender recommends tuning past the pitch and then tuning down to pitch, with locking tuners.

 

[thumb55]

I use sperzels and I always tune flat and tighten up to pitch.  From what I've seen a tilted headstock can complicate things.  You might try loosening the slot in the nut a bit.  Liquid graphite or DuPont spray teflon might help. 

in my opinion, or at least what I've delt with, the problem is with strings binding up in the nut.  You have good tuners, so start looking at that.

 

[taez555]

It's probably the nut, not the tuners or the trem.  I had the precut graphite nut on my strat with the wilky and it wouldn't stay in tune. I picked up the small nut files warmoth sells and reshapped my nut a bit to widen them (I also put a little extra guitar grease from stewmac in there).  Now it stays in tune 100 times better.

erik

 

[dmraco]

It's probably the nut, not the tuners or the trem.   I had the precut graphite nut on my strat with the wilky and it wouldn't stay in tune. I picked up the small nut files warmoth sells and reshapped my nut a bit to widen them (I also put a little extra guitar grease from stewmac in there).  Now it stays in tune 100 times better.

erik

any tip on the size I need...
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Special_tools_for:_Nuts_and_saddles/Gauged_Nut_Slotting_Files.html

 

[blue313]

The file size depends on your string gauges.  Warmoth sells a 3 piece set that's not bad at all.

http://www.warmoth.com/supplies/supplies.cfm?fuseaction=files

Edit: With a well shaped graphite nut there really should be no need for any extra lubrication.  90% of tuning problems are nut problems.

 

[mullyman]

Thanks for this, guys. I too am having a bitch of a problem with my new build. I have the Wilkinson with a graphite nut and Schaller locking tuners and that G string goes sharp when I use the trem. I took it to the guitar shop last night, the guy that does repairs there is certified through ESP, he filed out the nut slots and oiled them and guess what, the problem persists. I'm at the end of my rope on this one.
MULLY

 

[namklak]

When I first built mine (strat body, tilt back neck, graphite nut, schaller locking, and wiky 100 trem) the B string was binding badly.  You could hear an acoustic "ting" while tuning and trem'ing.  I didn't want to dress my fret ends, so I brought it to a shop that had a "guitar tech".  By my request, he dressed the fret ends, cut the nut deeper, shimmed the neck slightly so I could raise the trem to do a whole step up on pull, and not by my request, he wiped WD-40 on my graphite nut with this WD-40 pencil thing he had. :icon_scratch:  He stated that is a trick he new and it works great.  Well, the B string did not bind any more, but I attribute that to the nut cutting he did. 
Getting slightly technical (and probably not 100% correct), graphite is a dry luricant, and adding wd-40 (which is really not a lubricant but a cleaner and anti-oxidizer) was the WRONG thing to do.  All the other work he did was correct.  I own a 74 strat with a graphite nut and I have NEVER lubed it.  It has the stock fender six point trem and I can trem 1/2 step up or down and most the time it stays in tune.  The new guitar has a 50-50 chance of staying in tune on 1/2 step trems.

So, opinions on wd-40 on the nut?  How about pencil graphite? Or graphite powder?  How about graphite nuts should be self lubricating?

Also consider this a bump on the thread on getting a Wilky to trem one whole step and stay in tune.

Thanks,
-Namklak

 

[mullyman]

Well, according to Warmoth's home page a Wilkinson  "used in conjunction with the LSR roller nut or a graphite nut and locking tuners, Wilkinsons stay in tune!". I'm assuming they're not guaranteeing that statement. I've had my guitar worked on by a qualified tech and it will not stay in tune if you use the trem, and mine is also non-floating. I should have stuck with the Floyd.
MULLY

 

[GoDrex]

Without a locking nut you really have to warm up the strings and work with it a bit before it will hold tune. My strat will stay it tune pretty well but like I said above I need to play it a bit, tune it, mess with the bar a bunch and retune a few times before it will stay. After a while you kind of learn what it's going to do. Even the fender site agrees with me:

http://www.fender.com/support/stratocaster.php

"Each time you play your guitar, before you do your final tuning, play for a few minutes to allow the strings to warm up. Metal expands when warm and contracts when cool. After you've played a few riffs and done a few dive-bombs, you can then do your final tuning. Remember—with most tuning keys, it's preferable to tune up to pitch. However, with locking tuners, go past the note and tune down to pitch."

 

[namklak]

And we have a winner!!!
So while changing strings, I cleaned off the wd-40 the "tech" put on the nut.  When each string was off, I added powdered graphite to the nut and saddle in the string path.  Recall that on this guitar both the nut and saddles are graphite.  I also added powdered graphite to the two trem contact points.  I also followed the instructions for locking tuners on this link...
http://www.fender.com/support/stratocaster.php
I then played, trem'ed, and tuned (repeat) the guitar for 15 mins.  Then I went to practice, and trem'ed to my heart's content, with only a touch of a tuning machine thru 2.5 hours practice.
Both my bass player and band leader remarked at how great my guitar sounded.  ccasion14:
Notes:
Recall from above that I installed Graph-tech graphite saddles to the wilky trem on install.
I don't think wd-40 and graphite mix.  Also Fender mentions using 3-in-1, which is a lube, which would be fine on steel saddles and whatever nut they use.  wd-40 is not a lube.
Using the fender locking tuner "o-clock" method, I never started above 3 o-clock.  So that way no tuner did one whole revolution, and the cut string end never interfers with the string.
The powedered graphite was from Kadee, the model railroad coupler manufacturer. Yes, I've been known to play with trains on occasion.
I am now a happy picker!
-Namklak

 

[Soylent]

I know on one of Marko's strat's he has the wilkonson with locking tuners and the LSR, and it stays in tune very well, he let me baby sit it. That's the set up I'm putting in the strat I'm building and I'm fairly confident the combo will keep me in tune too.

 

[kykah]

I have kinda same problem. I installed Hipshot trem along with LSR Nut and Sperzels. Well, I lubricated everything on the string path and the tremolo contact points. But still when I bend with a tremolo even a 1/2 tone up all strings going sharp (about 30-40 cents on low E, 20-30 on G and 10-20 on B). If I dive a whole tone down it goes back in tune. When you have a nut problem strings go flat after a bending, so it's not the case. Besides it works fine when I use regular bends. I guess whe problem could be with the tremolo itself - where the ball-ends meet the block or the place where string touches the plate. I setup tremolo so it would go up a bit more then 3 semitones on G string - may be Hipshot just not suited for that setup. I have another strat with Am.Std tremolo and it works fine - only two lower strings go out of tune for about 5 cents up and down - it's ok for that kind of tremolo. So now I'm thinking about changing to Am.Std, but I don't know If it will help and I don't know how to remove the bushings out of the body  :icon_scratch:

 

[dmraco]

I di not think it is an effect of the whammy...more of a nut/string issue.  Mine seems to be improving with time...graphite nut.

 

[kykah]

Well.... I tryed an Am.Std. bridge on the hipshot studs today... and it worked flawless.... So it's a bridge problem. I've noticed that supposed to be a "bearing" was not actually rotating and has a deep mark from contacting a stud. A plate itself has a mark just above a bearing . Never hipshot again...

 

[dm251z]

wilky w/ bone nut, and gotoh staggered height tuners (on a tele neck).  lube w/ bone-nut-sauce.  stays in tune.

 

[jerryjg]

Start a new style of discordant music that requires out of tune guitar? ..or, look at the bridge. Everyone keeps saying its the nut. One dude evven said 90% of the time its the nut. Well, I've had nut tuning problems.. without question.., but usually from doing a bastardized file job on the nut or trying to superglue a effed up nut and haveing the string hang on the nut aftrr that. Otherwise, I can probably garuntee your looking at some problems with your bridge . That means your tremolo needs work in many different ways( bridge screws, HHieght adjustment screws, claw screws- hell, don't even overlook the saddle  springs and  length screws!). I've had nearly all my amateur assemblies come out where they go out of tune..but it can be fixed by woodglue and matchsticks, ( oh , by the way, so can the neck- a HUGE tuneing problem on assemblies where the screws don't grab and the neck shifts). I didnt dowel a single one of my strats  and they are all stable. Haeveing said that, ive spent 6 lifetimes working on them.

If your wilkinsons are like mine- one of them iis very tempermental with the bridge height screws. Thats the vSV-100 I believe. A pain in the arse. Worth it?? ..IDK..but its a great trem when set up properly!
My otehr Wilkinson-IDK the model, is the 2 point i bought from Warmoth. It has locking inserts. You do NEED to lock them down. Also, make certain the studs themselves and the claw and everything is copacetic.

 

[rahimiiii]

I'd say just go with floyds... they stay in tune but make sure the parts are high quality... if the studs and baseplate are not hardened (the cheap ones are made of pot metal or something and they wear out) then it will go out of tune. All trems have to be set up properly. Floyds just lets you do some serious dive bombs without going out of tune.