Re-Rout Hardtail for Trem?

EddieDavis

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Some of y'all have helped me with tips on this Frankensquire project, now fitted with a new Warmoth neck, Schaller tuners, and a BKP holy diver (which is totally sick by the way!).

It's still a work in progress, new pickguard tomorrow and nut slots worked on by my guitar tech in about a week, and beyond that I have two issues I'm hoping to solve. 

One, my bridge intonation screws are knocking my guitar out of tune.  Two - after all the time and money spent, I find myself really wishing this guitar had a whammy.  Thinking I might kill two birds with one stone... You know where this is going  :headbanging:

I know what most people will say to replace the body with a new one that is routed for the tremolo bridge you want.  I've heard that side and I get why people say it, so no need to repeat this advice!

What I'm hoping to hear about is if anyone has had experience with actually rerouting a hardtail Fender style body for tremolo use... And if so what was your experience? Did you notice a tonal difference for better or worse?  Did you experience any challenges or setbacks? 

Also if you were going to do it, is there a trem you recommend for a successful surgery?  I'd rather not change my nut so probably not looking to convert to a double locking system, although I'm a big fan of fine tuners.

Anyone who's done a hardtail to tremolo conversion on a strat, I'd love to hear from you! 

Oh and finally, I should add I would be getting this done professionally. 




 

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I've done it several times, been asked to even more times where I've talked 'em out of it. If you have the tools and templates it's fairly straightforward, but it's still not a trivial task. Easier/cheaper to buy a body already cut for it.

As for downsides...
- I don't want to say it's impossible, but reversing the operation is a lot more work than installation, so be sure you want it.
- There is some loss of sustain, but with modern bridge design/pickups/sfx/amps, it's not the issue it used to be.
- Tuning gets a little more aggravating, but again, with modern bridge/nut/tuner design remaining in tune isn't the issue it used to be.

Depending on what you want to do, there are some quasi-top mount vibrato bridges that are less invasive. Kahler comes to mind. Still have to route a cavity in some cases, but it's relatively minor compared to the major surgery a rear-counterbalanced system requires. You get a lot more range than a top mount like a Bigsby, and it returns to neutral more reliably, but it's not quite as dramatic as a Wilkinson or Floyd Rose type system can be made to travel.
 
Another vote for Kahler here. Not only does routing for a Kahler leave more wood (and thus, tone) in your guitar, but it's a far more elegant design with more adjustments available. Floyds are a pain in the ass, and in more ways than one! I really wish Mr. Rose would have just stuck to designing jewelry.
 
Hmm yes Kahler seems like a good workaround.

Warmoth discontinued neon finishes including this style of orange which makes a body replacement less likely, it has to be this color and according to my wife it has to be this body.  Haha!

Ok I'm gonna sit on this and We'll keep posting pics as the project moves along. Thanks dudes!  :yourock:
 
There is always a chance of tear out when routing the body and causing damage to the finish. Warmoth I am sure use very sharp bits on a CNC router and if they chip it out it’s on them.
 
That risk is always there, but it's not as common as you might imagine and luckily most routes are hidden, or should be. The exception would be the counterbalance spring cavity on the rear, which many players leave uncovered. Another place you might see something is where those who prefer no pickguard/no mounting ring for the pickups, and just screw them into the body. Even still, a good sharp carbide tipped-bit will prevent the vast majority of that kind of damage.
 
Shreddie said:
"One, my bridge intonation screws are knocking my guitar out of tune. "

If the nut has not yet been adjusted such as you mention that may be what is knocking the guitar out of tune. If the intonation screws are knocking it out of tune that may also suggest a better hardtail bridge is needed if you decide not to go in for alterations.

If you can't get the guitar to stay in tune as a hardtail you won't have an easier time with any sort of whammy bar.

I don't use Floyds as much these days, but I am glad they exist. The eighties would not have been the same without them

 
stratamania said:
If the nut has not yet been adjusted such as you mention that may be what is knocking the guitar out of tune. If the intonation screws are knocking it out of tune that may also suggest a better hardtail bridge is needed if you decide not to go in for alterations.

If you can't get the guitar to stay in tune as a hardtail you won't have an easier time with any sort of whammy bar.

I agree, think it's a combination of both nut and intonation screws.  Getting nut slot adjustment next week and we're gonna try to find shorter intonation screws for now, if I can find screws just 1/8" shorter it might solve the problem. 

The Kahler 2300 option is definitely an attractive one as it requires no rear routing... 

I tend to prefer the responsiveness of the vintage 6-hole trem...  But this guitar is a high gain monster that's not likely going to be played clean much... 

Will have to take some time to think about it, but mainly yes getting the guitar to hold tuning as a hardtail first makes sense before changing the bridge.

I wonder if anyone's ever locked the nut on a vintage 6-hole trem....  ??? 


 
Shreddie said:
I wonder if anyone's ever locked the nut on a vintage 6-hole trem....  ???

That is exactly what Floyd Rose, did originally on his own guitars and then later the bridge prior to them becoming a commercially available product. He was finding a way to keep his own guitar in tune starting by locking the nut.
 
Before Floyd Rose had ever made his mark on the world, a client asked me to build him a locking vibrato system for his Hamer Explorer out of brass. I had access to a machine shop, and secured enough brass to do the job. The whammy looked like the typical heavy brass Strat vibrato of the time (late 70's), mounted with 6 screws. Of course - I had to remove the tuneamatic and stop tailpiece, and rout out the cavity for the unit, springs, claw, and screws. I fabbed a locking nut, too - mounted in place of the bone nut. It worked terribly because locking the pairs of strings caused one to go sharp, and one to go flat. But the guy persevered, and figured out his compensation. Fine tuners never occurred to me then, and of course - neither did Floyd Rose when he first marketed his system. Fine tuning came later, and was the solution for the locking nut. If I had bothered to invent locking tuners back then, maybe things would have been different and my client would have been hailing my innovation. As it is - Randy Hansen was the first guy known to play a Floyd.
 
That is interesting Aircap.

My first Floyd Rose was on a Hamer Blitz (Explorer) I had built in 1985. It literally was in tune when it arrived in the UK. (That is one guitar I would like to have kept)
 
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