Japan Earthquake and Tsunamis

[jackthehack]

"Uh, yeah it is. If it was that simple, everyone would have nukes wouldnt they? The principle is easy, same as time travel. I think someone may have seen the "Manhattan Project" one to many times. The ability to construct a real working weapon (i.e. not a "dirty" bomb) is night and day difficult requiring the utmost precision in materials, construction and timing, where many, very carefully organized and timed events must happen within picoseconds of each other in the proper order, otherwise you should have just stayed home and used a few pounds of C4/HMX to begin with."

Everyone can't make nukes because they cannot obtain/produce enough fissionable material easily.

You are mistaking concepts:

- A dirty bomb does not even need to contain fissionable material, you COULD use those, but it would be easier to use other radioactive materials used in the medical or other industries. You simply pack radioactive materials into/around a conventional explosive device; there is no explosive damage outside of that caused by the conventional explosives, the aim is to contaminate an area with the radioactive material
- If you have enough U-235/U238 material, you CAN build a very simple atomic bomb of the type dropped on Hiroshima; there were ca. 60 Kg of fissionable material in the Hiroshima device, and it basically IS just as simple as shooting X mass to Y mass at high enough speed.
- The bomb dropped on Nagasaki (and all currently deployed nuclear weapons) are MUCH more sophisticated. It only contained ca. 8 kilograms of plutonium and had to be constructed in a manner in which explosives surrounding the plutonium in all exploded exactly simultaneously to implode the plutonium into itself to set off the reaction. That is a very simplified explanation, there's a lot more to it than that, and you are correct that it is highly improbable that terrorists could ever hope to construct such a device.

 

[Death by Uberschall]

Wicked video of the ground moving. 

http://www.dump.com/2011/03/12/crazy-video-of-the-ground-shifting-during-the-japanese-quake-video/

 

[Nando Vallart]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/japan-quake-2011/beforeafter.htm

 

[Dan025]

i know a bomb is much easier to build than a power plant. i dont know about how hard a bomb really is to build but what does that have to do with japan again? oh yeah an article, yeah take anyones opinion with a grain of salt even if they took the time to write a fancy article. true powerplants dont really explode but there are other concerns... my biggest concern is injured starving people in hospitals with no electricity, i know there are backup genorators but i have to wonder how long they will need to run and if they will get fuel, the death toll might not look high now but how many will die in the aftermath?. my other concerns are the time frame it may take to get the power plants either repiared or sealed and replaced and getting the infrastructure back to what it was, and the damages must take a big toll on the economy. lets be honest, japan is a big part of the world economy. and this is a bigger part of japan than new orleans is to america. maybe the tsunamia few years ago was worse, maybe the hati earthquake was worse, maybe katrina was worse, maybe the powerplants aren't in danger of polluting the surrounding areas but there are still some big unknowns and i think the unknown aspect is reason enough for concern.

also mully maybe it's because i used to live in an affected area but it seems like you down play it a bit, i know it is only near the coast that it affected but it is a huge part of the coast line. when i see overturned ships in hatchinohe harbor a good 100 miles away i have to wonder what the coat out side of sendi looks like. im glad you are safe but there are people from misawa i still haven't heard from, im guessing that they just dont have any internet access, but it does make me uncomfortable.

 

[Jusatele]

those lay overs are insane

 

[mullyman]

also mully maybe it's because i used to live in an affected area but it seems like you down play it a bit, i know it is only near the coast that it affected but it is a huge part of the coast line. when i see overturned ships in hatchinohe harbor a good 100 miles away i have to wonder what the coat out side of sendi looks like. im glad you are safe but there are people from misawa i still haven't heard from, im guessing that they just dont have any internet access, but it does make me uncomfortable.

Downplaying it? Are you serious? The only thing I'm saying in this thread is that there is not going to be a nuclear annihilation in Japan because of these reactors. Don't even start to accuse me of downplaying what is happening in the areas that were hit by the tsunami. See this video I put up 2 days ago and get a feeling for how I am handling this situation.

[youtube=425,350]dX96LFV3zBE[/youtube]

MULLY

 

[mullyman]

Ok, I see what you are commenting on, let me explain....

mully how many people are without power over there? it seems to me that much of japan was turned into a third world country over night. if the power plant leaks aren't controlled japan might never be the same.

Not to downplay anything but it's a small area compared to the rest of the country. Lots of farmland up in that area. Total devastation though. Millions of people without electricity. Relief and rescue efforts are on full scale though. They will rebound from this.

What I meant by a relatively small area was trying to convey the image that the entire country wasn't turned into a 3rd world country by this. In no way shape or form was I trying to downplay the severity of what is happening up there. I just don't want people thinking that the entire country is like this. Outside of that area things are as they usually are. It probably would have been better to convey the image by saying imagine living in Jacksonville, Florida and a huge hurricane takes out Miami. It doesn't lessen the severity of the situation in Miami, but nothing happened in Jacksonville.
MULLY

 

[jackthehack]

Mully - Listening to NPR on the way home there was a report that supply chains of every ilk are breaking down/broken and that grocery stores in Tokyo are running out of food, is that not correct?

The latest explosion in the #2 Fukushima Daiichi reactor a little over an hour ago from this post sounds more ominous than the previous reports, what are they reporting real-time over there?

 

[mullyman]

Tokyo is in fact having problems keeping shelves stocked, but I think it's more from panic of people buying everything they can get their hands onto rather than actual supply chains breaking down. If you look at the map of Japan the worst hit areas are in the north east. There is no problem getting things into Tokyo from the south. The electric company has taken steps to have rolling black outs to conserve energy but it's like 3 hour shots here and there in certain areas. Gasoline is being rationed, at 20 litres per purchase, but that is because that oil refinery in Chiba went down. Gasoline is still available from the south. The situation OUTSIDE of the hardest areas is not really grim at all. Just an inconvenience, that people are more than happy to abide by. I swear, my respect for the Japanese people, their strong will, their ability to pull together in a crisis and help out, is just amazing. Even here in Shizuoka, where we are hardly affected at all, people are doing what they can to conserve energy. Lots of shops are not turning their lights on outside, only using the lights they need on the inside, lots of places have even gone so far as to turn off the lights in vending machines etc... It really is amazing to see a society like this, and should be a lesson to the rest of the world. Everything that is happening up north is just mind numbing and the depression that comes from watching it and not being able to do anything is soul wrenching, but these are a string willed people and they will survive this. Do not give up on the Japanese. They will come back!! God bless Japan.
MULLY

sorry, I don't know much more than anyone else about the nuclear reactors. All I know is that I've been told that it's not as bad as the news stations are trying to make it sound.

 

[Firebird211]

(on a lighter note)...Hey, you don't look like Gene Simmons. :icon_scratch: 

(back to reality)...This is a very sad thing to happen to that part of Japan, and that could very well happen to any part of the world at any time, as far as natural disasters go.  God bless everyone, this planet is a loaded gun, and it tends to remind us of that from time to time.

 

[m4rk0]

extremely sad situation... I'm glad you're ok Mully...

I have a coworker I used to work with very closely in Uchida.. trying to figure out where that is.. are you familiar Mully?

 

[Jusatele]

thanks Mully for that Video,
with all the sesationalistic news we are getting over here, and all the quessing the reporters are doing just to get ratings

that was needed, and yes we will donate.

 

[mullyman]

thanks Mully for that Video,
with all the sesationalistic news we are getting over here, and all the quessing the reporters are doing just to get ratings

that was needed, and yes we will donate.

You're absolutely correct about sensationalizing the news. God forbid, there is no way on earth to make what happened up there sound worse than it actually is, no amount of sensationalizing can even come close to the actual events taking place up there. It's got to be horrific, and I'm not even sure I can come up with a word that adequately describes it. But the news, Jesus, they're going on and on about those nuclear reactors like the entire world is coming to an end when in reality what needs to be put out there is that there are people up there that have lost everything they ever owned and have lost a lot of family and friends and their lives are just devastated beyond comprehension. Even if they get the place cleaned up, these people have absolutely nowhere to go. Their homes are gone. The news is that they need help. They need water, they need food, they need blankets. Not only have they had to endure probably one of the worst things anyone can imagine, it's still winter up there and they are in shelters and in cars or wherever they can find a place to sleep and it's freezing fkking cold. I heard it got down to zero last night or the night before. I'm not a very religious person but I do have to say that I pray for those people and I hope they get past this as best they can. God bless them all.
MULLY
sorry for an earlier post but it really dug under my skin that someone would think I was downplaying the events taking place up there right now. Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

[mullyman]

BTW, as strange as it sounds, Al Jazeera's English web site has had the most accurate unsensationalized news through all of this. I thought it strange myself, but everyone over here that is involved in the YouTube community has been saying that that page has the most accurate information. Take it for what it's worth.
MULLY

 

[JaySwear]

I made this thread at 2:15 am Eastern Time, but stayed up all night after seeing the live reports. There was no real sensationalizing the story at that point. Actually there wasn't a whole ton of commentary by the news reporters, just live footage. I watched a wave crash over a road of cars that had just been moving (slowly) and watched it toss them around like toys. Couldn't sleep for the rest of the night just thinking about the poor people inside them all. Just watching is steamrolling over buildings, cars, boats, and planes and leaving it all in a field was insane. Crazy news footage coming out of Japan that night. And still is.

I have a few high school friends who are in Tokyo and they're fine, thankfully. One of them said she was getting very tired of aftershocks, but was alright otherwise.

EDIT: And strange you mention Al Jazeera's website, thats where I watched most of the live footage. CNN was getting annoying and repetitive (as they usually are) and Al Jazeera seemed to have the best information and most footage, not replaying the same 2 minutes like CNN seems to do with anything live.

 

[jackthehack]

They just reported about 12 minutes ago that there are issues with the #2 reactor containment vessel, and anyone within 30 Km advised to stay indoors with ventilation off..

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/15/world/asia/15nuclear.html?hp

CNN is just showing repetitive coverage of debris fields with an occasional live shot of Anderson Cooper/Sanjay Gupta being increasingly nervous about only being 64 Km from the reactors, #4 now on fire...

Mully - don't know what the prevailing winds are like there, but if there is an Army-Navy type store you have access to, a gas mask could prove to be a valuable investment. Do NOT buy a US surplus M17 type one, you want one with external replaceable filters, get extra filters if available.

 

[Jusatele]

So far, I have been searching the web, there seems to be no call for construction volunteers, I even hit Habitat for Humanity. I did 6 months in Haiti this last year and would be willing to do some in Japan but it takes a while for relief to turn to rebuild. As of right now if you are not a trained relief worker you are in the way, and I can see that as they need trained personnel over there till they hit a certain point.
However I could see a need for debris removal and processing to start soon as they will need to clean up a huge area and recycle as much as they can for rebuilding the area.

 

[mullyman]

They just reported about 12 minutes ago that there are issues with the #2 reactor containment vessel, and anyone within 30 Km advised to stay indoors with ventilation off..

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/15/world/asia/15nuclear.html?hp

CNN is just showing repetitive coverage of debris fields with an occasional live shot of Anderson Cooper/Sanjay Gupta being increasingly nervous about only being 64 Km from the reactors, #4 now on fire...

Mully - don't know what the prevailing winds are like there, but if there is an Army-Navy type store you have access to, a gas mask could prove to be a valuable investment. Do NOT buy a US surplus M17 type one, you want one with external replaceable filters, get extra filters if available.

Right now, the prevailing sentiment in Japan is that the nuclear reactors aren't as big a problem as the news is making them out to be. Granted, exploding nuclear reactors can't be a good thing. And you know, the news could easily turn for the worse. As for winds, it's my understanding, for the next few days at least, the winds are blowing out to sea. I honestly pray that it doesn't come down to a nuclear disaster on a major scale. From what I've been reading and hearing these reactors are not like the ones at Cherynobl so that comparison is being blown out of proportion. But, I honestly don't know any more than anyone else about them. I just have to go by what I'm hearing and hope it's the truth. In times I like this, I prefer to try and focus on the least negative thing instead of the most. It's bad enough that these poor people up north have had their lives and livelihood taken away from them. Toss in a nuclear meltdown with that and it's just a bit too much to process for me. Our news sources here in Japan are saying it's not going to be a Cherynobl type disaster, I'm going to try and believe that until told otherwise.
MULLY
but don't think for a second that this stuff doesn't scare the sh!t right out of me. I'm only human.

 

[jackthehack]

You can't wind up with a Chernobyl type scenario due to the difference in design/construction of the reactors. There appears to be the possibility that the primary containment vessel may be or may become breached. The primary danger would be exposure to expelled wind borne highly radioactive particulate matter if you were downwind within the plume of the dispersed particulates. Hopefully the prevailing winds will continue to blow out to sea.

This is somewhat akin to being out of the blast/gamma ray danger zone of a nuclear weapon detonation, but within the fallout plume. Radioactive particulates are relatively easily removed/decontaminated externally, but you definitely DO NOT want to inhale such into your lungs, hence my suggestion to obtain a gas mask. If you pay attention to the news footage, there is nobody in the vicinity of the reactors NOT wearing gas masks with removable filters.

 

[mullyman]

I checked, and I'm about 220 miles away from there. Don't know if that helps or not.
MULLY