It has begun....

[rauchman]

Greetings,

Starting working on the Tele swamp ash body that I had ordered.  It was a beautiful day Saturday and decided to work on some steps outdoors to enjoy the day.  Originally was thinking of going "deep" on a complex finish, but went with Stratamania's suggestion and went for something simpler to get my feet wet.

Started with this...

Steps used so far...
-Sanded body using 150 grit (as suggested by Keda Dye instructions)
-Removed dust with a paint brush and mineral spirits (as I'm learning, mineral spirits takes a while to dry, any faster suggestions for this process?)
-Used hot water to open grain
-Sealed wood with a light coat of Birchwood Casey Wood Sealer/Filler.  Did not focus on a perfect coat of sealer.  Waited 1 hour to dry
-Using Keda dye, mixed a combo of black, red and brown and used to highlight the open pore grain (6oz hot - warm water, 1/4 tsp of dye for each color)
-Sanded off sealer, but not a full on "must remove every bit of sealer"
-Removed dust with a paint brush and mineral spirits (one more time...as I'm learning, mineral spirits takes a while to dry, any faster suggestions for this process?)
Mixed a solution of 6oz water and 1/4 tsp blue Keda Dye
Using a rag, slowly stared from about 2" out from the center, to apply the dye, using a sweep motion from center to the edge
Applied 3 coatings.  Each successive coat would be applied a little further out from the center.  Also, between each coat, would take a dry rag and rub to lightly burnish the finish.  Definitely noticed a "rising" of the grain from this process
Had about 3-4oz left of the blue dye solution and added an additional 1/4tsp of black dye to the solution to make the blue darker
Only applied to the outer 2" or so
Final light burnish
Applied Birchwood Casey Wood Sealer and focused on smooshing (technical term) it into the grain
Sanded with 320 grit
-Removed dust with a paint brush and mineral spirits (and yet again...as I'm learning, mineral spirits takes a while to dry, any faster suggestions for this process?)


Sunday morning/yesterday morning....
Applied 4 coats of True Oil, using a couple of fingers to work it in.  A glossiness was starting to be visible by coat 2. 

Tonight...
Sand using 400-600 grit.  If time allows, apply another 4 coats of True Oil

This is where we are now.....

Unintended effects, but worked out awesome.

I didn't take a picture of the back / sides, however, I didn't apply much if any sealer to the wood on the edges and I didn't do a great job applying sealer to the back.  The effect of this was to dye the wood varying intensities of the black, brown, red dye solution.  Then with the blue dye added, it has created a beautiful worn relic look.  Will take some pics tonight...

So far, I'm happy with how this is turning out. 

Some questions.....

Can either a poly, lacquer or shellac finish being applied on top of the True Oil?
Can True Oil be mixed with a oil based stain?
Can an oil based stain be mixed with poly, lacquer or shellac?

Thanks!

 

[Rick]

Can either a poly, lacquer or shellac finish being applied on top of the True Oil?  My only experience is with Poly, and the answer is yes.  Going from tru-oil to a wipe-on poly.

Can True Oil be mixed with a oil based stain?  Don't see why not, never tried it though.

Can an oil based stain be mixed with poly, lacquer or shellac?  For the poly, yes.  Don't know about the others.

My preference would be to color the wood first, like with a keda dye.  Let dry good.  Then put on the poly or tru-oil.

 

[Cagey]

I prefer naphtha over mineral spirits. Boils off faster, and doesn't hurt anything. Just as good for many other cleaning duties as well.

 

[JPOL007]

How about Acetone? Drys fast and no residue.

 

[bagman67]

Acetone boils off clean and fast, even faster than naphtha, but unlike naphtha, acetone is pretty destructive.  It dissolves a lot of stuff naphtha won't hurt.

 

[Rick]

Acetone melts stuff.  I wouldn't use it.

 

[Cagey]

Right. It's a pretty aggressive solvent. Have to be real careful with it.

 

[Toulouse_Tuhles]

Can either a poly, lacquer or shellac finish being applied on top of the True Oil?

Poly yes.  Lacquer no.  Shellac Yes.

Can True Oil be mixed with a oil based stain?

Tru-Oil is an oil fortified varnish.  Do not dilute it with anything if you want it to set up firm.Can an oil based stain be mixed with poly, lacquer or shellac?
With "some" poly, but test.  Lacquer, no.  Shallac, most likely no.  Reason, oil based may mix with poly, but lacquer and shellac are more solvent based, require evaporation and gassing off more than polymerization.  Contaminants (aka oil stain) may be an issue.  You can get alcohol based stains though, so you might want to try those.
My preference would be to color the wood first, like with a keda dye.  Let dry good.  Then put on the poly or tru-oil.
From Keda website, mixes with

• Lacquer Thinner
• Denatured Alcohol
• Acetone
• Other Non-Oil Based Reagents

So... not mixable with, but most likely can be used UNDER Tru-Oil (which I'm no fan of)

 

[stratamania]

You can mix Tru-Oil with artists oil paint with linseed oil as the carrier without any issue.

 

[rauchman]

…...getting there.  Pretty much everyday, sling 3-6 coats of pure True Oil, then another 3 coats of True Oil/Naptha mix (about 50/50). 

I made the mistake of using these,....

….which caused a bunch of little divots in the wood.  You can see them in the upper horn in the 2nd pic, and they are in all quadrents of the body.  Since using the True Oil/Naptha combo, those little divots have started filling in.  And yes, there are a bunch of little divots on the back side as well.  I'm hopeful that within another 2 or so sessions, those little divots will be gone.  Lesson learned.....

But.....it's getting there!

 

[stratamania]

That's looking nice.

 

[rauchman]

That's looking nice.

Very much appreciated.  Very far from the league you're in, but I'm enjoying this a lot.  AFTER I started this, I read some of your threads and realized I missed some steps.  That's ok, because....there is always the next project.  :cool01:

Having said that, I'm looking forward to getting past the finishing process and getting to the playing process.

 

[rgand]

It's lookin' good. I just lay mine on either a soft towel or bench cookies. Another trick I learned from Kevin (Cagey on the forum) is to put Frisket Film on both sides to keep from getting unwanted marks from incidental little stuff.

 

[Cagey]

There are a lotta anti-mutilation films out there... if you just Google "anti films finishes" it'll return quite a variety, with various qualities for different applications. But, nothing really protects a soft surface, especially with a high-pressure contact point like those standoffs provide. They're a wonderful thing, but against a fresh  oil finish? No. Needs time to cure up as hard as it's going to get, which actually isn't that hard and always takes longer than anyone thinks. You're better off not letting it touch anything, period. Hang it, or use a holding jig that'll keep it in midair. StewMac has these things...

which work well for that, or you can make something similar yourself. Moving too soon on fresh finishes is a common problem, though. The temptation to make progress is great, so people tend to try things hat probably shouldn't be done for a couple/few weeks.

 

[Rick]

The neck is looking good too ... did you apply dye and how did you do it?

 

[stratamania]

That's looking nice.

Very much appreciated.  Very far from the league you're in, but I'm enjoying this a lot.  AFTER I started this, I read some of your threads and realized I missed some steps.  That's ok, because....there is always the next project.  :cool01:

Having said that, I'm looking forward to getting past the finishing process and getting to the playing process.

Thanks, I am glad you found some of those things useful.

I am now not sure which league I belong to but I will take it as a compliment. Thanks again.

 

[rauchman]

It's lookin' good. I just lay mine on either a soft towel or bench cookies. Another trick I learned from Kevin (Cagey on the forum) is to put Frisket Film on both sides to keep from getting unwanted marks from incidental little stuff.

Interesting.  What does the Frisket Film do exactly?  I just looked at the link you provided and I'm a little unclear on what it does (haven't had my coffee yet).

 

[rauchman]

The neck is looking good too ... did you apply dye and how did you do it?

From this thread.....
http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=30722.0

Sanding between the frets with 600 and 800 grit wet/dry, run wet
Also did the rest of the entire neck with 600, 800, 1000, 1200, 1500 and 2000 grit wet/dry, run wet
Hit the entire neck with a dye combo of Black/Brown/Red
2 wiped on coats True Oil
Sanded between frets with 1000 grit
- 1 wiped on coat of True Oil
Sanded rest of the neck with 2000 again

The dye didn't pop the grain as I would have liked, however the roasted maple is now a darker richer color and some of the grain kinda popped.  Doesn't look blotchy. 
Also, the back of the neck has a gloss to it and is baby bottom smooth.  REALLY like how the neck came out.

The dye didn't have a hugely dramatic effect, but it's there.  Made the wood a little more brown with a slight pop on the grain, no blotchiness.  It was applied with a rag, as was the True Oil.  And the back of the neck....yum.  Really smooth.  By the way, I took the advice that you gave in that thread, regarding the heaviness of the HipShot tuners and ordered some mother of pearl looking tuner heads.  Reduced the weight nicely....thanks!

 

[rauchman]

There are a lotta anti-mutilation films out there... if you just Google "anti films finishes" it'll return quite a variety, with various qualities for different applications. But, nothing really protects a soft surface, especially with a high-pressure contact point like those standoffs provide. They're a wonderful thing, but against a fresh  oil finish? No. Needs time to cure up as hard as it's going to get, which actually isn't that hard and always takes longer than anyone thinks. You're better off not letting it touch anything, period. Hang it, or use a holding jig that'll keep it in midair. StewMac has these things...

which work well for that, or you can make something similar yourself. Moving too soon on fresh finishes is a common problem, though. The temptation to make progress is great, so people tend to try things hat probably shouldn't be done for a couple/few weeks.

Excellent info....thanks!  What do you use the Frisket Film for?

 

[Cagey]

Protection. Keeps new (or like-new) fnishes from getting scuffed/scratched while handling/working on them. It has a low-tack adhesive on it, so you just roll it out like wrapping paper and attach it. I do my best to keep the bench & whatnot clean and clear, but as they say, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.