Is there really that much difference in single coils?

elrodphil

Junior Member
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I'm building a strat right now and I'm trying to decide on pickups. I want the sss configuration. I have listened to countless sound clips, tried many types of pickups in stores and on friends guitars through many different type rigs. The two best choices, just my opinion, were fralin vintage hots and emg sav. Do you think it is better to get pickups with a thinner sound and beef it up through effects and amp...or...get hot pickups and adjust through the rig.....I do a lot of studio work. Live, I play blues but I still want the clean sound...no breakup...just clean.

I really didn't hear that much difference in any of the pickups...some were a little darker, would break up easier or they would be louder....nothing that could not be worked out through a good rig or eq.

I'm leaning toward the Fralins because I think they sounded more like a strat. I'm a little afraid of the potential buzz....emg savs sounded great without the buzz...but sometimes they didn't sound like a strat to me...just something missing...maybe I could work it out through my rig?
 
Heresy!

While I wouldn't quite agree that all Strat pickups sound the same, if you're just after a good general traditional Strat sound, then almost anything on the market intended to fit that bill will do just that.

Save yourself some cash and hum hassle at the same time by getting a GFS noise cancelling set.
 
There's quite definitely a difference in sound between variations of single coil pickups. But, in the main, they all sound roughly the same, with some difference in output level. If you want to be able to play clean from time to time, and I would say the pickups capable of doing that often have more discernible character differences, then you have to start with a clean pickup. You can always dirty it up later if you need to, but a dirty (high output) pickup will rarely clean up as nicely as one that's inherently clean to begin with.
 
I think this kind of stuff is the same as anything that people develop a taste for. To someone who never smokes cigars, a $2 cigar probably tastes the same as a $30 cigar, or wine, or a number of other things. I think it's the same with pickups and other guitar gear. If something sounds good to you, then go with it because you're the only one you have to please.
 
Being a studio player you must have had access to tons of gear.  If you think, whatever, is your favorite than go for it.  All things being equal, if you're going for versatility, then adding to a clean sound is a lot easier, than cleaning up a dirty sound.  That's why I like the Duncan Distortion, lot's of umph, plenty of highs, stays clean (despite the name) and then when you start cranking the volume you get a nice overdrive.  A lot depends on your head and cab.

Between the two you like, I like the Frailins. 
 
There are lots of good ones, and they will sound a bit different in each individual guitar. For standard single coils I love the Suhr FL pickups, they have a very classic strat sound.
 
1st rule of internet fora:  Spending other people's money is easy!
2nd rule of internet fora: Don't let someone else talk you into spending big bucks on something. If you're gonna spend the big bucks for high dollar pickups - you need to convince YOURSELF first.
3rd rule of internet fora: If you can't articulate or perceive the difference, aim for middle of the road garden variety. Once you convince yourself that "these need more [bite/honk/beef/quack/cut/smooth/growl/boquet/savoir faire/laissez faire etc..] then replace them.
 
swarfrat said:
Once you convince yourself that "these need more [bite/honk/beef/quack/cut/smooth/growl/boquet/savoir faire/laissez faire etc..] then replace them.
:icon_thumright:
 
If there was no difference we'd all be happy with Strat units. But since there are a gazillion different single coils out there.... Draw your own conclusion.
 
I'm not saying there's no difference. Just that buying high dollar replacement s pickups without a clear idea of what you're trying to change is folly.
 
Nothing beats the Dimarzio Area series, or for slightly more beef, Injector (neck position).
Area 67 is the brightest. 61 is still plenty bright with a tad more low-end.
 
The blessing and the curse is that there are countless options on market at this point. I have liked Kleins the best so far and feel they have some texture to work with that I think I sense and hear. As always, its a very subjective game. I also have the recent Mojo Tone noiseless that I like but those are not true single coils.
 
If you don't mind giving EMG another shot, I've been loving the Maverick 5 set from their Retro Active series. Closest I've ever gotten to "authentic" from any hum-free set. Combine it with an SPC knob and you can push them towards Jazzmaster territory as well.
 
For studio work, a set of Bill Lawrence L-250's would work great. They are a high fidelity pickup known for clarity and clean power. They are dead quiet, and best of all.... affordable. $55 each from most sellers on Squeebay.
 
Imo, the Boutique custom wound  pickups from the Duncan Custom Shop, Lollar, Bare Knuckle, etc.,  do sound richer and more full  through a nice amp with a good build. I'd say your going to spend about 75%-80%  more for about a 15%-20%  difference.
 
I've lost count of the number of times I've seen people asking about specialist boutique winds to get a specific sound, and then it turns out the players they are trying to sound like just used generic stock pickups. This goes for single coils, humbuckers, P-90s, everything.

There's no magic faerie dust. Putting one company's or person's name on the baseplate of a pickup doesn't make it sound any different to how it did five seconds before. As long as your magnets and wire are the same, you get the same sound. If Fender make one Stratocaster pickup with A5 pole magnets and .42 wire wound to 7k, and Seymour Duncan also make a Stratocaster pickup with A5 pole magnets and .42 wire wound to 7k, and you put them in the same guitar with the same set up and played by the same person through the same amp and effects, the sound you get is the same.

If you compare pickups which actually have reasonable differences in construction—say, A2 magnets compared to A5—then you will hear a difference, though how significant that difference may be depends on the variation in construction and the kind of tone you use. The more gain and effects you use the less you're going to notice small differences between pickups. Bigger differences can still be clearly heard, but they'll still be covered up to an extent. If you're playing clean or low-gain blues then you will hear a difference between a single coil made with A2 magnets and one made with A5 magnets, but something like .42 wire wound to 7k and another one wound to 7.2k won't be obvious.

My general rules of thumb are:
- Magnet shape and arrangement make an obvious audible difference no matter what sound you use. Bar magnets vs pole magnets, three chunky bars vs one skinny bar, etc. 99% of single coils use pole magnets so this one shouldn't be much of a concern to you.
- Coil arrangement and connection makes the second-most obvious difference. Series humbucker, parallel humbucker, big single coil, skinny single coil, etc.
- Overall winding makes the third-most difference, but isn't always totally obvious. High gain or lots of effects can cover up the differences between an overwound and underwound version of a pickup; a clean sound will make this difference very obvious. The wire type rarely matters simply because it's so rare to see pickups made with extremely different wires unless they're also very different in other ways anyway, at which point you must compare the pickups as a whole and can't single-out just the wire gauge.
- Magnet material is up next. AlNiCo, ceramic, neowhatsitsname (I just woke up; I'll remember after I've had my coffee...). Even just medium gain or light effects can disguise some of the differences between some magnet materials (A2 to A3, or A4 to A5, for example), but you can usually still just about tell them apart. Since single coils are almost always either A2 or A5, and those two magnets are very different-sounding, magnet material certainly does matter in single coil pickups. (Humbuckers aren't quite as distinct and come in more in-between varieties.)

If you're mostly playing clean then all these things will be apparent. You want to make sure you get the magnet arrangement, coil arrangement, winding, and magnet material all right for your style. For a 'normal' Strat single coil this will be something like the examples I've used above; A5 pole magnets and .42 wire wound to around the 7k mark, +/- 0.5k. Which specific model of pickup you may buy isn't going to make a whole lot of difference as long as those parts of the construction line up. If that kind of spec doesn't work out for you then buying another, similar-spec pickup isn't going to help; you'll want to shift more dramatically, such as trying A2 magnets, a much hotter or cooler wind, etc.

Bear in mind some abstract pickup designs can throw all this off, by using very unusual wire gauges to coil combinations to make DC readings which don't follow normal standards, or using very strange magnet arrangements. But typically if you were looking at one of those pickups you'd be well aware of it; you're unlikely to be 'tricked' into buying a blade magnet hum-cancelling Strat pickup. (Take one look at the SD Hot Stack and you'll instantly see how hard it is to confuse it with a regular single coil.)
 
A lot of wise replies. Here are my 2c...

Pickup technology is old - dates back to the 1950s and I don't really believe that there is anything wonderfully different from one manufacturer to another. Don't get pickups with an elevated G string pole though - that was designed for the wound G string with a 7.25" fingerboard radius.  Modern flatter radii and plain G strings need the G pole to be lowered a bit to maintain inter-string volume balance.

If you can find a hum-cancelling pickup that in your opinion does a decent single coil sound, then IMO the silence is worth the extra expense involved.

DiMarzio Areas are nice - BUT - pole spacing is 51mm. At the bridge position that means that with a 54mm spaced bridge the E6 and E1 strings run significantly outside the polepieces (even worse with a 56mm spaced vintage bridge).  If you play with your amp on the edge of break up, that string will sound cleaner than the  2nd / 3rd strings.  Really irritating - but not so evident played completely clean or well into saturation.  You could of course use a set of rails in the bridge position.  The opposite phenomenon (string inside the pole pieces) wouldn't matter...

Kinman Impersonator 56 or 54: 52.5mm / 51mm / 49.5mm polespacing.  These are really special, string alignment is good, and so is pole piece stagger (which is good on the DiMarzio Areas too). Authentic single coil tone (I can't tell the difference with my eyes closed). The 56 is classic bright and mid-scooped strat; the 54 has a bit more mid-range.  The in-between positions sound quite authentic too - but it's here that real single coils have that little extra special magic.  Kinmans are a nuisance if you want to change pickup covers to another colour - you'll need a get covers from Kinman. Its also irritating that covers without the Kinman logo cost extra - but you can remove the logo easy with steel wool and then polish with  toothpaste :)

Mojotones: Not played them myself, but a good friend of mine rates them very very highly. It's interesting here that the pole piece stagger makes no difference (they're there just for cosmesis).

EMGs / Fushman Fluence - no personal experience, but I prefer the classic look with polepieces.
 
One big thing you have to consider is what kind of music you play and what pickup position you find yourself playing in the most. My first total Warmoth build was a Strat so I could have that classic Strat sound. I ended up getting Fender Deluxe Drive pickups for it which are pretty hot but still sound very Stratty. What I was saying about music and pickup position is, if you play clean, no worries. Thing is, I play mosty rock and the singles just don't cut it. in posistions 2 & 4, they are fine, but once again, I'm usually at the bridge. Humbuckers and some noiseless sets are going to cut that classic chime. I just put a SD Hot Rail in the bridge of my Strat with a coil split volume this morning so I could get both sounds.
I have a set of the noiseless from GFS that Fat Pete was talking about. Want a good deal on those?  :icon_biggrin:
 
Jay Menon said:
A lot of wise replies. Here are my 2c...

Pickup technology is old - dates back to the 1950s and I don't really believe that there is anything wonderfully different from one manufacturer to another. Don't get pickups with an elevated G string pole though - that was designed for the wound G string with a 7.25" fingerboard radius.  Modern flatter radii and plain G strings need the G pole to be lowered a bit to maintain inter-string volume balance.

If you can find a hum-cancelling pickup that in your opinion does a decent single coil sound, then IMO the silence is worth the extra expense involved.

DiMarzio Areas are nice - BUT - pole spacing is 51mm. At the bridge position that means that with a 54mm spaced bridge the E6 and E1 strings run significantly outside the polepieces (even worse with a 56mm spaced vintage bridge).  If you play with your amp on the edge of break up, that string will sound cleaner than the  2nd / 3rd strings.  Really irritating - but not so evident played completely clean or well into saturation.  You could of course use a set of rails in the bridge position.  The opposite phenomenon (string inside the pole pieces) wouldn't matter...

Kinman Impersonator 56 or 54: 52.5mm / 51mm / 49.5mm polespacing.  These are really special, string alignment is good, and so is pole piece stagger (which is good on the DiMarzio Areas too). Authentic single coil tone (I can't tell the difference with my eyes closed). The 56 is classic bright and mid-scooped strat; the 54 has a bit more mid-range.  The in-between positions sound quite authentic too - but it's here that real single coils have that little extra special magic.  Kinmans are a nuisance if you want to change pickup covers to another colour - you'll need a get covers from Kinman. Its also irritating that covers without the Kinman logo cost extra - but you can remove the logo easy with steel wool and then polish with  toothpaste :)

Mojotones: Not played them myself, but a good friend of mine rates them very very highly. It's interesting here that the pole piece stagger makes no difference (they're there just for cosmesis).

EMGs / Fushman Fluence - no personal experience, but I prefer the classic look with polepieces.

Whenever I recommend the Dimarzio Area series (and Injector), I'm always referring to neck and middle positions.
I'm not a single-coil guy for bridge position, for which I use either the Super Distortion-S (dual rail) or a full-size humbucker that's not real hot.
 
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