Instead of a raffle

[GoDrex]

I personally would never get involved in this contest because I already know my ideas are not considered that cool around here. I like paint.  I designed a tele that Max puked on and any guitar I would really want to make would be too plain or odd. If you're not a wood grain/skin disease raw neck freak around here, you're in the minority :laughing7:

I also wonder if you could get enough people involved in a creative thing that would raise enough cash to make it worth while. The raffle is easy because you just throw in some cash and wait.

 

[hannaugh]

Mully's white painted Strat and line6man's black bass won GOTM, so don't rule yourself out just because you like painted finishes. 

 

[Paul-less]

I like GoDrex's idea of a riff contest. "But what about people who don't have recording software?"

Really, there is no fair way to do a contest. Get tougher skin.


Also, if you're never won a drawing, Karma says you're in for your lucky moment pretty soon.

 

[Rouse]

Absolutely not... aside from some of the aforementioned reasons, it would be all too easy to get a biased result when you involve
people voting, and this system could be easily abused.  Popularity contests belong in high school and GOM polls, not lotteries.

Just imagine doing a state lottery that way... heh.

Should keep it a random draw so everyone gets a truly fair chance, and thus keep personal bias outta the picture.

EDIT:  I can't believe some of you are falling for this scam.  You're willing to gamble $ based on a popularity contest?   :tard: :tard: :tard:

+1
Even if it was anonymous, people with better computer skills would win.

 

[hannaugh]

I like GoDrex's idea of a riff contest. "But what about people who don't have recording software?"

See, I think that's just all the more reason to mix it up.  One time we could do a design contest, then a random drawing, then a recording contest, then another random drawing, then a songwriting contest.  Everyone would get a chance to win somewhere along the line.  

And who said this was a lottery?  It's not.  It would be a CONTEST.  Any contest that is judged by anyone, voters or a panel, will be biased... that's kind of the point. 

 

[line6man]

We do a riff contest over at the Duncan forums and all contestants use "battle names" and except for a few rare occasions after a number of contests when people start to get familiar with the sound and style of a couple of members (I could only ever ID one person because his sound was so distinctive) - no one except the person running it knows who is who.

Yeah, I would be pretty damn easy to pick out. :doh:
You guys are going to know it's me instantly when you hear a fuzzy Strat tone or the soloed bridge pickup of a Jazz bass...

 

[GoDrex]

Mully's white painted Strat and line6man's black bass won GOTM, so don't rule yourself out just because you like painted finishes.  

I've been around here long enough to know I've got almost no chance.

 

[Superlizard]

And who said this was a lottery?  It's not.

Ahem - the current format is a lottery.

But you want to take a perfectly fair format and turn it into a biased popularity contest.  

Popularity contests (GOM/GOY) are fine here as long as the stakes are a minimum (i.e. if you don't win, you lose nothing).  

But we're talking at least a thousand $$$ here... bias doesn't belong in any way shape or form with those high stakes.

So, don't change the format/rules to help your chances; it's obvious that's what you're attempting to do with this "suggestion".

(Speaking as someone who has never entered in any of these events and never will - e.g. completely unbiased.)

 

[kboman]

Yeah, not liking this idea actually. While he words it poorly, SL has a good point with bias.

Based on the general drift of the public opinion around here:
- fancy woods will have an edge
- F*nder designs will have a definite edge
- raw necks will have an edge
- computer savvy designers will have an edge
...etcetera.

Inevitably, whether concious or unconcious, contestants will adjust their designs according to popular taste to increase their chances of winning. The point of having the chance to build your dream guitar gets a bit lost. I suppose it could be arranged as a complement to the raffle, separately but it would not be a good replacement. As much as a loathe money, simply paying for a chance to win is a cleaner arrangement.

(sorry for any typos, new keyboard!)

 

[line6man]

Inevitably, whether concious or unconcious, contestants will adjust their designs according to popular taste to increase their chances of winning. The point of having the chance to build your dream guitar gets a bit lost.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm certainly not making any changes to my dream guitar to increase my chances of winning. :dontknow:

I have very specific preferences on the specs of my instruments, and I'm not changing them for any reason. Even if it meant possibly winning a guitar for free, what use would I have for it? It wasn't what I wanted, so it's useless.

 

[Patrick]

but the point kboman is trying to make is that whoever wins will be the one whose dream guitar is also a dream guitar of the voters

if your dream guitar does not appeal to others, it has no chance of winning. that is not fair.

 

[kboman]

but the point kboman is trying to make is that whoever wins will be the one whose dream guitar is also a dream guitar of the voters

if your dream guitar does not appeal to others, it has no chance of winning. that is not fair.

^ This ^

Thank you Patrick. I'm not braining well today so maybe I was being unclear.

 

[abandon_blink]

but the point kboman is trying to make is that whoever wins will be the one whose dream guitar is also a dream guitar of the voters

if your dream guitar does not appeal to others, it has no chance of winning. that is not fair.

i see what you're saying. and you're right.

however, i dont think any of the GOTM winners were everyone else's dream guitars, so i can MAYBE see this working if all the entries were anonymous. with some refinement this May POSSIBLY work...Maybe....

 

[Patrick]

lets look at the past winners:
they all have either a high grade figured top or an exotic neck (with the exception of zoidberg's guitar). these two factors are the most popular things on the forum.

and with these kinds of contests it is easier for the same person to win multiple times, as seen by DbU winning GOTM twice two months apart

 

[hannaugh]

REALLY???  So you think my PURPLE Strat is everyone else on this forums' dream guitar?

I never said "let's replace the raffle with this and never have a blind drawing again".  If that's what you think this is about, you obviously haven't read the thread.  I'm just saying it would be cool to have a contest.  Contests by nature are flawed, get over it.  If that is enough to make you not want to compete, then fine, it's a good thing it wouldn't be mandatory.  But don't automatically exclude everyone else from competing just because you don't think you could win.  Otherwise, let's get rid of the Olympics and replace it with giving gold medals to people at random.  I mean, it's obviously not fair since I can't do any of that stuff that they do in gymnastics or diving.  

If you start getting into everything being perfectly fair all the time, you might as well just say that anyone with talent should be jailed for using it and anyone with money should only be allowed to build one guitar so as not to make people who can only afford one guitar not feel bad.  

 

[Dan025]

mully won with a solid white strat w/ pickgaurd and electrical tape over the hole that the volume pot should go in. and i think alfangs franky gets some atention or atleast it used to, i think we all have a flavor of the week and the high dollar top grade wood stuf wont always win. plus we can exclude the winner from the next contest and if its done anually that'll be enough time as many of us build more than one guitar a year anyhow. i think a little bias is ok and if you're not comfortable entering a guitar you can stick to the normal drawing instead. i'd like to see it even if we only get limited participation.

 

[kboman]

REALLY???  So you think my PURPLE Strat is everyone else on this forums' dream guitar?

It's a str*t, with a highly figured top, and an exotic neck. That's pretty much the baseline for a guitar around here. And I think it's really cool and personal!, so don't get me wrong on that. It's just that a Star shaped guitar in yellow metal flake with Transformers stickers, midi pickup and a Kahler won't stand a chance in hell against a flame koa top Thinline with P90s.

The Olympics are not about finding the perfect balance between the lowest common denominator and the right amount of "edgy", so I don't really think that argument works. Even the sports with judges have pretty clearly defined standards on which judgements are based, so that's still about raw performance and skill, as opposed to taste.

I never said "let's replace the raffle with this and never have a blind drawing again".  If that's what you think this is about, you obviously haven't read the thread. 

Well I did, and I also read the thread title: "Instead of a raffle". Was it misnamed? I have no issues personally if the contest becomes its own separate thing, but that "instead" makes me go eeeehhhh...

Anyway. Let's not turn this into a big argument! A contest is just fine with me, but not at the expense of the raffles.

 

[hannaugh]

I said instead of a raffle, not instead of all the raffles.  I still think we should have the raffle, I think we should have them more often, BUT I also suggested having songwriting competitions and playing competitions, because I think rewarding someone based on their taste and their skill is more fair than blind chance.  I don't know how in the world any of you could honestly believe that random chance is more fair than anything.  Next time they give promotions at your jobs, maybe they should pick who gets them with a random drawing.  That would be the most fair, right?  I mean, cause then the bosses can't play favorites based on looks or who they like, or I dunno, performance in the work place?  Competitions are not 100% fair EVER, but they are a hell of a lot more fair than random chance any day of the week.  You can just ask anyone who has ever been in the wrong place at the wrong time. 

 

[dNA]

Competitions are not 100% fair EVER, but they are a hell of a lot more fair than random chance any day of the week. 

How could anything be MORE fair than something TOTALLY RANDOM? Sorry Hannaugh, but I don't get your logic on this at all.



Personally, I agree with most of the points people have made about a design contest - there's definitely not going to be an equal chance for anyone to win. I think that's a given.
That being said, I don't think that's a flaw. That's the difference between a contest and a drawing (I don't know what all this "raffle" talk is about cough cough)
Now the title of the thread clearly states "Instead of a raffle." So it's not hard to understand why people might think "Hey, you're taking away my chance at winning something" if you replace the drawing which, as far I understand, is still only going to be held once a year unless a different consensus has been reached.

All that being said, if you want to have a contest in addition to the existing drawing, and it doesn't jeopardize the opportunity for anyone to win their dream guitar in said drawing, then have fun. Whoever wants to do it will participate and nobody will twist your arm to make you.
People's resistance to this idea is not that it's a bad idea, but that they feel like they are having THEIR chance at winning taken away - whereas Hannaugh, you sound like you basically want to do it because it will increase your chance of winning. (and I don't mean this as an attack or to be personal or rude, I promise. no disrespect)
Does that make sense?

 

[bigguspickus]

I like the contest idea, either in place of or alongside any exiting drawings or raffles. The competition aspect of it could inspire someone to come up with something totally new. Who knows? I'm essentially for anything that fuels creativity.