Hipshot tuners "drill-no-holes" thingy. Wish I'd thought of that

[KaiserSoze]

Hipshot UMP.  So I tried these because I'm lazy, and yes, they work great.

 

[line6man]

Looks like silliness to me. I would rather spend the extra time to do it right than to have to look at an unsightly piece of sheet metal forever.

 

[swarfrat]

Fathead anyone?

 

[Cagey]

Y'know, these tuner manufacturers could solve a lotta problems with mounting their tuners if they'd include some decent templates, the appropriate-sized drill bit and a dab of beeswax in a little foil wrapper in the package along with the tuners. It'd probably cost them less than a dollar and for what they charge for tuners it'd be a drop in the bucket. I mean, other than drilling the anti-rotation holes, whether they're for screws or pins, is where a lot of people have problems. Past that, installing a tuner is a no-brainer.

 

[drewfx]

Y'know, these tuner manufacturers could solve a lotta problems with mounting their tuners if they'd include some decent templates.

You'd think W could make us some little cardboard templates or something (since they won't drill the holes for us) - even if they charged us a buck or two for it.

I have some BML Lite bass tuners to install here and they have two pins I have to account for. It will take me far, far longer to make a little template than it will to drill the stupid holes. Major aggravation. :sad1:

 

[Cagey]

Cardboard isn't robust enough. Sperzel already includes a cardboard template with their tuners, and it's easy enough to mis-align that one. Need a little piece of sheet metal similar to what Hipshot is supplying, with holes in the right places so you can not only mark the holes if you want to, you could leave the template in place for the drilling. Wouldn't cost jack. I doubt Warmoth would be interested as it leaves them being responsible for the hole positions and they're independant of the tuner manufacturers. That's why I think the tuner folks should be the ones to either put them in the package, or sell them as part of installation kit that includes a drill bit and some wax for the screws.

StewMac sells a jig that works pretty well for a variety of tuners...

...but they want $37.50 for the little rascal, which is kinda steep. I have one, but I install a lotta tuners so it was worth it to me. Most folks would probably have trouble justifying the expense.

Edit: I should also point out that the jig only helps with tuners that have blind anti-rotation pins. Tuners that use screws for that aren't accommodated. A plate could have holes for all those, and so serve a wider audience.

 

[drewfx]

I'm not sure that manufacturers are thinking in terms of people like us though. I'd guess that the overwhelming majority of tuners they sell are drop in replacements or OEM.

And I agree that cardboard is not ideal, but it's far better than nothing. I don't see a big problem with it for a small number of tuners - it just needs the holes in the proper positions for marking along with an edge at a 90 degree angle for alignment purposes.



Do you happen to know if that ridiculously overpriced StewMac jig matches BML Lites? I normally avoid tuners with pins instead of screw holes like the plague, but it's the only route W offers for certain bass necks and it might be worth overpaying for a tool (even one I might only use once or twice) to do the job right.

 

[SustainerPlayer]

It will take me far, far longer to make a little template than it will to drill the stupid holes. Major aggravation. :sad1:

It shouldn't be a major aggravation. You are doing DIY-work and therefore should be looking forward to solve the small problems that arises in a build. Else you could buy something stock or get a luthier to do a build for you.

Embrace and love the challenges.

YMMV and all that 

EDIT: And there is a set of tuners installed every second somewhere in the world.  :sign13:

 

[Cagey]

Do you happen to know if that ridiculously overpriced StewMac jig matches BML Lites? I normally avoid tuners with pins instead of screw holes like the plague, but it's the only route W offers for certain bass necks and it might be worth overpaying for a tool (even one I might only use once or twice) to do the job right.

I looked up the Schaller BML's to get the mechanical drawing here, then put a caliper on the drilling jig and I'm afraid the answer is no. Won't work. Not even close.

 

[drewfx]

It will take me far, far longer to make a little template than it will to drill the stupid holes. Major aggravation. :sad1:

It shouldn't be a major aggravation. You are doing DIY-work and therefore should be looking forward to solve the small problems that arises in a build. Else you could buy something stock or get a luthier to do a build for you.

Embrace and love the challenges.

YMMV and all that 

EDIT: And there is a set of tuners installed every second somewhere in the world.  :sign13:

It's a major aggravation because it holds up the entire build so I can be certain I get it right before I drill holes in my nice exotic wood neck. If I just had a template I could be done with it in minutes.

Drilling holes for the tuners is really the only part of a build I hate.

 

[drewfx]

Do you happen to know if that ridiculously overpriced StewMac jig matches BML Lites? I normally avoid tuners with pins instead of screw holes like the plague, but it's the only route W offers for certain bass necks and it might be worth overpaying for a tool (even one I might only use once or twice) to do the job right.

I looked up the Schaller BML's to get the mechanical drawing here, then put a caliper on the drilling jig and I'm afraid the answer is no. Won't work. Not even close.

Yeah, I didn't expect that they would bother to accommodate bass players.

W actually already has the technical diagram on the tuner page: http://www.warmoth.com/pdf/BMLight.pdf

[EDIT: Interestingly, now that I compare the diagrams, the Schaller page shows 17mm center to center on the pins and W shows 16.5mm. Everything else appears to be the same.]

 

[Cagey]

Yeah, I didn't expect that they would bother to accommodate bass players.

I don't think they're being mindless of the bass market, it just would have required a larger jig that might have kept it from being useful for guitar. Then, I have no way of knowing for sure, but I strongly suspect there are dramatically more people who build/modify guitars than basses. Gotta follow the money.

Still, it's pretty simple device. You'd think they could have made two models without a lot of trouble.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

I can't tell you how many seasoned players I meet that are surprised a I can wire a pot or switch as opposed to having it down.

Along those lines, it occurs to me that the majority of replacement tuners are sold not to hobbyist builders (us) or luthiers, but the Joe Schmoe doing a direct replacement or taking it somewhere.  Those guys have bought or made the jig already.

 

[stubhead]

I have some screwy Hipshot tuners eventually coming up in my chores, and I fully intend to drill the holes and then install some kind of pin in the wood.

THE HELL WITH SILVER-PAINTED POTMETAL ZINC/LEAD BLOBOCRAPTANIUM SCREWS! I mean, really. Really....

(Everytime I walk into a wall or fall over the sofa, I log onto "ClumsyOaf.com" and trumpet the stupidity of walls and furniture...)

You could size some nails exactly and saw them off, but I don't want ferrous metal or brass - creeping discoloration... It looks like some (stainless) 4-40 screws would work, they're just a lee-tle bit too large but after you knock the heads off a couple of long ones, you could just stick them in your drill chuck (attached to a drill, one would hope :icon_thumright rev it up and and teach those pups a thing'r two. I haven't even begun to snorf through my (ahem) ~Reserve Materials Department~, there's probably half a dozen little pinny things just sitting there, gloomy over their junky neighborhood and willing, perhaps even eager, to leap into a blessed life of music & merriment. After I decapitate their heads and pound on them some.

Non load-bearing, essentially. If you sink so low as to have to buy something (NEVER let yer squeeze "organize" the Reserve Material Dept.! ) I'd bet the metric-sized Allen wrench'd bridge saddle adjustment doodads would do? Hell, the Allen wrenches themselves would do, I must have a dozen or more extra from everybody who includes tr... WOO! there are some little office-type paper clamps made out of bent black spring steel with lovely little, stainless steel-wire handles, hmmm, there are... WOO! well you get the idea.

(If the squeeze crochets, there are some lovely thin stainless steel crocheting hooks... ) :evil4:

 

[DavyDave53]

To date, I've purchased four Warmoth necks and I've used the UMP plates on all of them.  Why drill holes or risk a screw breaking off.

And as a bonus the Hipshot guitar tuners work very well.

 

[BigSteve22]

Hey, I know this is an OLD thread, but I think an important point was missed, and anyone reading this in the future should know this before starting a new thread.

The whole idea behind UMPs has been missed. They are not intended to eliminate the need to drill holes for your new build. It's so you don't need to drill new holes in a possibly valuable existing instrument in order to upgrade your tuners. Using UMPs, you can upgrade without modifying the headstock, and therefore return your instrument to it's original factory spec tuners in the event you wish to sell it at a later date. The best of both worlds: Upgrade AND remain all original if the need arises.

 

[stratamania]

I've used Hipshots without the UMP and also with. I'm planning at some point to turn the UMP into an alignment and drilling jig.

The UMP does work well especially for retrofitting tuners on an already built instrument.

I also have one of those  drilling jigs Cagey mentioned. It's a useful tool.

 

[sixstringsamurai]

Y'know, these tuner manufacturers could solve a lotta problems with mounting their tuners if they'd include some decent templates, the appropriate-sized drill bit and a dab of beeswax in a little foil wrapper in the package along with the tuners. It'd probably cost them less than a dollar and for what they charge for tuners it'd be a drop in the bucket. I mean, other than drilling the anti-rotation holes, whether they're for screws or pins, is where a lot of people have problems. Past that, installing a tuner is a no-brainer.

STOP MAKING SENSE!