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Hidden truss rod adjustments are evil!

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swarfrat

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??? Couldn't find the smoke coming out the ears icon. Started doing setup on my stalled baritone project and now I get to take the neck off to adjust the truss rod. I guess side adjust isn't an option  on baritone, but heel adjust by itself is just plain stupid. Grrrrrrrrr. Just venting.
 
Yes they are, about the only thing I didn't like about my EBMM EVH sig. That stupid adjustment wheel...real PITA... :doh:
 
Never done this myself but had bookmarked the following how-to video from Fender. It explains adjustment at the headstock and at the heel (the latter starts at about 3:50). In the event it could be helpful...

[youtube]qKtlsps4SqY[/youtube]
 
Thank you for that! I've been playing and hacking for a long while and never even thought of doing that. As they mention in the video - as tedious as heel adjust is - the part that really burns me up is that you're just guessing and it's iterative - all the while you're cranking on them neck screws.
 
Worked, though I must also add: heel adjust and overhang should never ever occur on the same neck.  I double checked my order from way back. If you get a baritone strat , this is your only option.  I can see from the heel overhang on the conversion that side adjust might not be an option. But there doesn't seem to be a headstock adjust option for strats (spell check needs some training on guitar terms)
 
swarfrat said:
Worked, though I must also add: heel adjust and overhang should never ever occur on the same neck.  I double checked my order from way back. If you get a baritone strat , this is your only option.  I can see from the heel overhang on the conversion that side adjust might not be an option. But there doesn't seem to be a headstock adjust option for strata.
I agree, neck adjustment is hard enough as it is...
 
DangerousR6 said:
Yes they are, about the only thing I didn't like about my EBMM EVH sig. That stupid adjustment wheel...real PITA... :doh:

Really, those adjustment wheels are easy to use usually.
 
I'd been toying with a twin beamed skeletonized design for an upcoming build. It occurs to me that the desgin EBMM stole from TinkerToys would actually work with an adjustment slot on the back. But if you're building, why not do it right? 

I'm disappointed Warmoth doesn't offer a straight strat with a headstock adjust truss rod. I get that they're proud of the heel adjust thing, but it's not available on Modern Lefty - or Right handed baritone for that matter. Headstock adjust is dirt simple and superior even to side adjust (because of its simplicity). I could get vintage construction being heel adjust - for models for which that it is period correct. But the only head adjust double acting truss rod is for tiltback., and all baritones are heel adjust with overhang only.
 
I can certainly see that a head adjust would be easier. Perhaps there's some reason W chose to do the baritone that way ?
 
Baritones have a wider neck that's milled down to fit the neck pocket. Since modern construction necks, conversion included, use the double expanding truss rod - I'm gonna hazard a guess and say it's because of the wood cutting operation after the the fingerboard is glued on.  The only neck adjust they offer is the vintage/modern with is a single acting truss rod.
 
Like most things in life, various neck constructions are a balancing act of compromises and benefits. If it were possible to use the Warmoth double-truss rod on straight headstock necks, trust me...we would be doing it.

Unfortunately, the Warmoth double truss rod cannot be headstock-adjustable unless the neck is tiltback style. The geometry simply doesn't allow it. A traditional single-style truss rod is installed in a bowed position, and turns upwards at the end near the headstock, making access to the adjustment nut possible. However, double-truss rods are installed pancake flat, and there is no opportunity for access on a flat-headstock neck without doing something so intrusive that headstock integrity would be compromised.

The upside is that double-truss rods are incredibly stable. Once you get one adjusted correctly it very rarely needs to be touched. In the meantime, just make sure that each time you remove and reinsert the neck screws, you back-turn them until they "thunk" into position, and then tighten them. This way they continue to follow the same thread path each time, rather than cutting new ones.

The Side Adjust Mechanism has been a great way to address the access limitation of heel-adjust rods, but it too has drawbacks. First off, Gotoh does not make it in a left-handed version. As far as I can tell, the only reason they continue to make the right-hand version is to supply Warmoth. Also, it is simply not robust enough for use on Baritone and bass necks. The torque required to move those longer rods/necks is too great.

I really like the Tinker Toy adjustment wheel. It incorporates all the best things of various designs, with super ease-of-use. Based on the number of manufacturers incorporating it into their products, I'd say many others feel this way too. EBMM, Charvel, Suhr, ESP, etc. Even Fender is using them now, on their Elite Strats and Teles, and I'd wager it will find it's way in to their Standard models over the next few years. It's Achilles Heel, however (and it's a big one), is the fact that it cannot be made compatible with Fender's vintage/original 2-3/16" neck pocket specs. If it continues to catch on, it is going to present some pretty major challenges for Fender, Warmoth, and every other manufacturer of replacement necks...not to mention all the guitar players and consumers that will have to navigate an even more confusing landscape of neck/body compatibility. Oy.
 
I should make a bevel geared truss rod with an allen wrench insert from the back. That's the ticket. 
 
double A said:
Like most things in life, various neck constructions are a balancing act of compromises and benefits. If it were possible to use the Warmoth double-truss rod on straight headstock necks, trust me...we would be doing it.

Unfortunately, the Warmoth double truss rod cannot be headstock-adjustable unless the neck is tiltback style. The geometry simply doesn't allow it. A traditional single-style truss rod is installed in a bowed position, and turns upwards at the end near the headstock, making access to the adjustment nut possible. However, double-truss rods are installed pancake flat, and there is no opportunity for access on a flat-headstock neck without doing something so intrusive that headstock integrity would be compromised.

The upside is that double-truss rods are incredibly stable. Once you get one adjusted correctly it very rarely needs to be touched. In the meantime, just make sure that each time you remove and reinsert the neck screws, you back-turn them until they "thunk" into position, and then tighten them. This way they continue to follow the same thread path each time, rather than cutting new ones.

The Side Adjust Mechanism has been a great way to address the access limitation of heel-adjust rods, but it too has drawbacks. First off, Gotoh does not make it in a left-handed version. As far as I can tell, the only reason they continue to make the right-hand version is to supply Warmoth. Also, it is simply not robust enough for use on Baritone and bass necks. The torque required to move those longer rods/necks is too great.

I really like the Tinker Toy adjustment wheel. It incorporates all the best things of various designs, with super ease-of-use. Based on the number of manufacturers incorporating it into their products, I'd say many others feel this way too. EBMM, Charvel, Suhr, ESP, etc. Even Fender is using them now, on their Elite Strats and Teles, and I'd wager it will find it's way in to their Standard models over the next few years. It's Achilles Heel, however (and it's a big one), is the fact that it cannot be made compatible with Fender's vintage/original 2-3/16" neck pocket specs. If it continues to catch on, it is going to present some pretty major challenges for Fender, Warmoth, and every other manufacturer of replacement necks...not to mention all the guitar players and consumers that will have to navigate an even more confusing landscape of neck/body compatibility. Oy.

Washburn used to have the access mounted under the edge of the fingerboard, with a cover that blended in with the end of the fingerboard, This might be a "workaround" to some extent.
https://fretmechanic.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/n2-20.jpg
 
Gotoh should make the same product options available for left handed players. I can understand the cases where there are technical limitations for a headstock adjust location but I have marveled at how outdated heel adjust is as a concept. Anything that has you taking the neck off to make an adjustment just seems like we should be far past that as a species at this point.
 
musicispeace said:
Gotoh should make the same product options available for left handed players. I can understand the cases where there are technical limitations for a headstock adjust location but I have marveled at how outdated heel adjust is as a concept. Anything that has you taking the neck off to make an adjustment just seems like we should be far past that as a species at this point.


Telecaster = 66 year old design
Stratocaster = 62 year old design
Les Paul = 64 year old design


It could be easily argued that all are outdated as a concept, and have been outpaced by superior, more user-friendly designs.


Others want them exactly as they were first introduced, and any other way is blasphemy.


Who is right?


And don't even get me started on amps. Tubes? Seriously?  :tard:
 
double A said:
musicispeace said:
Gotoh should make the same product options available for left handed players. I can understand the cases where there are technical limitations for a headstock adjust location but I have marveled at how outdated heel adjust is as a concept. Anything that has you taking the neck off to make an adjustment just seems like we should be far past that as a species at this point.


Telecaster = 66 year old design
Stratocaster = 62 year old design
Les Paul = 64 year old design


It could be easily argued that all are outdated as a concept, and have been outpaced by superior, more user-friendly designs.


Others want them exactly as they were first introduced, and any other way is blasphemy.


Who is right?


And don't even get me started on amps. Tubes? Seriously?  :tard:

Tis true boss. I have to say I think the stratocaster design is the most comfortable platform for a guitar to my feel bar none but I tend to mix and match...keep some aspects of the original idea and mix in certain things that reflect recent options (pickups from a winder I like, locking tuners, Callaham or Hipshot bridge etc) I go with top adjust in necks (unless I can't resist something from the showcase that is a Modern) because it just puts the adjustment right there should it be needed. But, of course, that all reflects my conclusions thus far. We all have to go with what resonates for us. 
 
double A said:
Telecaster = 66 year old design
Stratocaster = 62 year old design
Les Paul = 64 year old design

It could be easily argued that all are outdated as a concept, and have been outpaced by superior, more user-friendly designs.

Old? Outdated?? Stradivari's golden age started in 1700! (Not to equate Leo with Antonio, but you get the point....)

Like I tell my wife: "Honey, I ain't old, I'm a frik'n classic!" Same age as the Strat and still kick'n!

:bass:
 
When I was a kid, we had to pull our necks off to adjust the truss rod in the snow...uphill both ways...and we were grateful just to have a guitar with an adjustable neck. Kids these days with their new-fangled side-adjusting tinker toy contraptions have no idea how easy they have it.
 
I agree, the Gotoh side adjuster should be in the Smithsonian along with mankind's other great inventions. Edison, eat your heart out!  :icon_jokercolor:
 
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