Truss rod issues

[Matty]

I bought Warmoth neck and body about 10 months ago, but my project got put on the back burner until last week.  I finally put it all together and everything is fantastic except the setup.  I have the truss rod cranked all the way counterclockwise, but I have almost no neck relief.  I’ve had to set the action really high to avoid buzzing.  The truss rod turns easily and then firmly stops, so I’m afraid to crank it any further.

Any ideas?  I’m new to guitar building, so I suppose I could be missing something.  I’m afraid the neck just has a bad truss rod install, but I’d feel really bad to try to return it, particularly after having sat on it for so long.

It’s a tele neck, solid pau ferro, body has the 720 mod and a Wilkinson bridge but I don’t see that any of that really matters.  The guitar is gorgeous otherwise!

 

[Matty]

I should probably add that I special ordered the strat body with a tele neck slot, so yes, it’s supposed to be a tele neck on a strat body. Don’t judge, it’s an option right there on the website.

 

[stratamania]

Are you sure you have been turning the truss rod in the correct direction?

 

[Cagey]

With the guitar strung up so there's full tension on the neck, it's unlikely you'd get more than .005"-.008" of relief at the 7th-8th fret, maybe less. If you still get buzzing or boinking out here and there on the fretboard what that means is the frets aren't quite ideal. Even on brand-spanking new necks, of as high a quality as Warmoth's are that's not unusual. They do a great job of milling the fretboard and installing the frets, but that's where they stop. There's no leveling/crowning/dressing/polishing done - that's left to whoever does the setup. Warmoth's necks are good enough that many, if not most users will use those necks straight out of the box, but they're really not optimized yet. That's true of all new necks, not just Warmoth's. High end builders like Suhr or PRS will do a setup at the factory, and I understand Gibson even has Plek machines in production to speed that work up, but in all those cases you're paying for that service when you buy an assembled guitar. When you're just buying parts, it's up to you (or your assigns) to get that done.

 

[Toulouse_Tuhles]

*Warmoth neck and body about 10 months ago
*truss rod cranked all the way counterclockwise*almost no neck relief*action really high to avoid buzzing*the truss rod turns easily and then firmly stops*new to guitar building

Got to ask a few questions, like....what type of neck construction is it?

Normally, the truss rod nut on a vintage neck will come off after you keep turning counterclockwise (lefty loosey).  You can reinstall it easily, and sometimes its purposefully removed for lubrication.  A vintage modern has the truss rod nut at the headstock, and it will "stop" against the wood plug if you loosen it.  It should be "slack" for maximum relief.  If its a modern construction neck, then I'm not sure exactly what goes on.  I'd have to look at the cut away pictures of one again.

I'm guessing you've got a vintage modern neck.

Next question... how are you measuring/determining the relief?  I prefer the "press at fret one, and "last fret" method, and you can judge the relief at fret 7 or 8 pretty well with that.  You can use a capo and feeler gauge with that method as well.  Relief of up to about .010 (thickness of your high E string... hint hint...) is usually a real good place to begin.

Next question.... how high is really high action?  I find --> for my playing style, and with .010-.046 strings <-- that I can do 4-1/2 64ths of an inch on the low E, and 4 64ths of an inch on the high E, and not get buzzing with every stock Warmonth neck I've owned, except one that had a high fret up at fret 22 (which tapped down easily).  That is, naturally, after any excess finish had been removed from the frets by scraping followed by a bit of polish on a rag.

Next question.... what string gauge are you using?  You may need to string up with something heavy temporarily if your neck is not cooperating with relief.

Next question.... how was the neck stored, as far as the truss rod is concerned?  Warmoth warns against having tension on the truss rod before stringing, to avoid your situation, and ships them slack.

Next question.... what finish is on the neck?  Finish on the frets themselves need to be removed by scraping, polishing, whatever method you also might have... usually Pau Ferro is bare though, but just askin'!

And... lets say you had a slack truss rod nut... are using some reasonably heavy strings, and cannot get .005 inches of space under the string at fret 7 or 8 when pressing on fret one and the last fret.

At THAT point, I'd call Warmoth, and ask what to do.  If it was out of the Warranty period, I'd suggest a slack truss rod, and weight the neck at the headstock to provide added "tension" until the wood came around and lost its set.  But at 10 months old... Warmoth might want it back, assuming something's irregular.

 

[stratamania]

High end builders like Suhr or PRS will do a setup at the factory, and I understand Gibson even has Plek machines in production to speed that work up, but in all those cases you're paying for that service when you buy an assembled guitar. When you're just buying parts, it's up to you (or your assigns) to get that done.

To be fair to Suhr they also use the PLEK in the manufacturing process. Very good standard of work and should be good to go generally.

 

[TBurst Std]

It’s already been mentioned, so further dx is fruitless until the op responds with relief measurement and manner.

For all we know currently, they could have too much relief, and still be experiencing buzz due to other issues.

 

[Matty]

Okay, I'll try to answer in order:

Am I turning it the right way?  If I crank it all the way clockwise, I get a back bow, so I think so.

I did level the frets myself sometime around December.  I adjusted the neck flat using a notched straight edge and then used a fretguru sanding bar and then crowned them with a file.  I won't claim it's perfect, but I think it's okay.  I did notice then that the truss rod adjustment range seemed a little weird, but I dismissed it because there was no string tension.  I did this with the neck off if that wasn't obvious. I left the truss rod there and it sat, then I assembled the guitar.  So maybe I screwed that up relative to wanting it slack when first stringing up.

It is a vintage modern tele neck, single piece construction of pau ferro. I measured the relief both with the straight edge and by pushing down a few of the strings at the 1st and 21st fret and the string is touching the frets or the straight edge is touching the board more or less all the way across.  I didn't bother getting out a feeler gauge, I can do that tonight.

String gauge is 10-46, D'Addario XLs

Neck was stored in the shipping box in my finished basement which is typically around 67 degrees and relatively low humidity.

Neck is unfinished.

I didn't measure the height of the action, I'll also do that when I get home, but it's really high, much higher than my Squier strat that I also setup myself and plays pretty well.

I'll post more data tonight, thanks for the help everybody!

 

[Rick]

Sometimes you gotta bring it to the wizard (aka Guitar Tech).

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

What's the humidity conditions where you live?

 

[Matty]

Eastern Washington state, so moderate humidity.  I don't have issues with my other guitars.  They typically change tuning by half a semi-tone when the weather changes, and I've never had to adjust my truss rods once they're set, at least not for my lousy playing.

And my wizard seems to have gone out of business recently.  His magic was a little weak anyway as he never really impressed me on the guitars I had him set up.

 

[Matty]

Okay, I just double checked that I have the truss rod cranked all the way counterclockwise, tuned, and put the notched straight edge on the board and I could not get a feeler gauge under it at 8 or 12. It's nearly perfectly flat.  Am I hosed?

 

[Cagey]

I've had a notched straightedge since forever that rarely gets used. You don't play on the fretboard, you play on the frets. Generally speaking, what you want/need to check is if the fret plane is level, not the fretboard. It's possible for the frets can be all over the place while the 'board is level, which is NFG. So, you need an 18" straight-edged straightedge with some feeler gauges to check that. A quick check with a fret rocker will usually point out one or more proud frets pretty quickly. Use that to find the problem child(ren) and get those right before doing an overall leveling.

 

[Matty]

Okay, I put a straight edge on the frets and I get the same answer, frets are quite level and there's no relief in middle frets.  I had leveled the frets and checked them all with a fret rocker months ago.  But even if my frets all suck, I should still be able to create neck relief with the truss rod, right?

 

[Cagey]

Yeah, you should. Sometimes, very little relief is built into the neck to start with, so it doesn't take much to put it out of adjustment range. If you're sure the frets are level, you may have to bake in some relief (trying to bend it in never works). I wrote a bit of a tutorial on doing that if you'd like to try it.

 

[MikeW]

One thing to consider is that Pao Ferro is a very dense and stiff wood. I've worked with Maple, Mahogany, Ebony, and Canary necks and they all are stiff. But the Pao Ferro neck I have on my blue Strat is the hardest MoFo on the planet.

It took me a bit to get any relief into it at all, and four years later, it's still the same. I finally gave up on trying to get the correct amount of relief in it and just live with some fret buzz. That being said, it's also by far my favorite neck and is simply gorgeous to look at and play on.

 

[BroccoliRob]

I dunno, mang, if you got the rod completely loose and can't get even a really thin guage between the middle fret and a ruler/straight edge, I think you should contact the Big W. Maybe Mr Admin Aaron can chimify in, but I don't think I'd want something that out of the box had zero relief with the rod loose. I haven't had that unfortunate luck so far, but that sucks imo. I'm sure they'll do right by ya. I'm okay with a little buzz if it doesn't really come through my amp, but I want to make sure my stuff sings like two feathers making love in a gentle rainstorm atop a mountain.

 

[Toulouse_Tuhles]

Timeline:

August 2018: I bought Warmoth neck and body about 10 months ago, but.....

December 2018: I did level the frets myself sometime around December.  I adjusted the neck flat using a notched straight edge and then used a fretguru sanding bar and then crowned them with a file.

June 2019:  ....my project got put on the back burner until last week.  I finally put it all together and everything is fantastic except the setup.

So if I'm understanding this, you somehow manipulated the neck before things were assembled, and leveled the frets, and then you assembled things and strung it up.  I think that is your undoing, and...  I think Warmoth is gonna say "no warranty".  Not that the neck is ruined, but its going to need some special TLC to get adjusted.

 

[Matty]

Can someone enlighten me as to where on the Warmoth site the guidance about not adjusting the truss rod without stringing it up is? I never saw that and I'd like to educate myself.

 

[Matty]

Nevermind, it was right under my nose