help with Finishing roasted ash with try oil

iamthewolf11

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i have a roasted ash jazz bass body I'm looking to keep as natural as possible since the wood is so beautiful.  my biggest question is do i have to grain fill roasted ash? my plan was this: sand to about 220-320 maybe higher?? then, apply sanding sealer (should i skip this step?) then after two coats of tru oil i was planning on lightly rubbing my wood with fine steal wool. after that maybe two more coats the wet sand with 2000 grit + boiled linseed oil to level finish and possible act as a type of filler. then obviously the rest of the try oil coats. doest that sound like a good idea? if not tell me some other options
 
Why in the hell would you sand it? IT'S ALREADY BEEN SANDED AT WARMOTH.

Just coat it with TruOil and be done with it. If you apply enough, it will fill the grain.
If you want it smooth, fill the grain, GENTLY sand it smooth, and hit it with TruOil.

I am SICK AND DAMN TIRED of people thinking sandpaper is the answer for everything.
 
AirCap said:
Why in the hell would you sand it? IT'S ALREADY BEEN SANDED AT WARMOTH.

Just coat it with TruOil and be done with it. If you apply enough, it will fill the grain.
If you want it smooth, fill the grain, GENTLY sand it smooth, and hit it with TruOil.

I am SICK AND DAMN TIRED of people thinking sandpaper is the answer for everything.
Yo Bro, having a bad day?  ???
 
Like I said, I am SICK AND DAMN TIRED of people thinking sandpaper is the answer for everything. And I damn well meant it. It's just a sore point with me. Sandpaper for EVERY GODDAMN THING. Doesn't matter if they are just changing pickguard screws. SHALL I SAND THEM? No, just leave 'em the flip alone, they never did anything to you. Have you caught my meaning yet?
 
OK, man. Just grab a rag, and starting wiping it with light coats of TruOil. Follow the directions on the container. A hint: Turn the bottle upside down in a jar or cup, and the finish won't skin over in the container. Turning it upside down keeps the air at the bottom of the bottle.

ALSO: Almost any oil on a rag will catch fire as the oil dries. SO..... keep the rag in a sealed container to exclude oxygen, or leave it laid flat in the open on a fireproof surface. Hang it on a chain link fence outside with a clothes pin.

But don't sand the wood. Warmoth already did a better job than you'll ever do. Good luck.
 
Ash, roasted or otherwise, is a pretty open-grained wood. If you don't fill it, you'll be left with a fairly rough grain that'll collect body oil, dead skin cells, dirt, and various other grunge and eventually look like hell.

True oil is a polymerized oil that needs to be applied in thin coats. If you apply enough to do any filling, it won't cure well, if at all. It's not a highly durable finish to begin with; you certainly don't want it to not cure.

So, if you wanna oil it, I'd highly recommend grain-filling it so you have a level surface that'll take about a dozen even coats. Grain filler, if you're not familiar with it, is not like the "wood filler" you get in a can for repairing dented/gouged/damaged wood. It's much thinner, about the consistency of latex paint. You spread it on, scuff the excess off with a hard squeegee or a wad of burlap, wait for it to dry, and sand it smooth with some 320 grit. For something as porous as Ash, you may have to do that twice or three times before the surface is good and level.

At that point, you can start with the dreaded true oil. Thin coats. Wipe on, wipe off. Takes about a dozen coats. Finish will look great when you're done. For a little while, anyway.

Also, never ever use steel wool on a wood finishing project unless you're some kind of self-loathing masochist hell-bent on personal suffering  :laughing7:
 
iamthewolf11 said:
i have a roasted ash jazz bass body I'm looking to keep as natural as possible since the wood is so beautiful.  my biggest question is do i have to grain fill roasted ash? my plan was this: sand to about 220-320 maybe higher?? then, apply sanding sealer (should i skip this step?) then after two coats of tru oil i was planning on lightly rubbing my wood with fine steal wool. after that maybe two more coats the wet sand with 2000 grit + boiled linseed oil to level finish and possible act as a type of filler. then obviously the rest of the try oil coats. doest that sound like a good idea? if not tell me some other options
Anyway, in answer to your original question, I've never used tru-oil on a guitar, but having read about it so many times, that I did some experimentation with the methods I've seen posted. First off, you don't really want to sand anything that's getting an oil type finish down below maybe 220. If the surface is smoother than that, it tends to interfere with the absorption of the finish. That's about how far down Warmoth sands things.

One thing I read, and tested on a piece of mahogany, is sanding the wood with 220 using the oil as a lubricant. What happens, is the sanding dust makes a slurry with the oil which, if gently scraped off at an angle to the grain, acts as a grain filler. And being the solids in the filler are the tiny bits of wood sanded off the piece your finishing, the color match is exact. Just make sure you don't leave any standing oil on the surface, it makes a sticky mess. This can be done multiple time to fill in the grain. Since ash is also an open grain wood, more open than most mahogany, I'm thinking it may work there too. Although with a more open grain, it may not work as well. Try it on a scrap first to see how you like it.

I'd also stay away from steel wool. Awfully messy stuff. Try a scotch brite pad instead. There are many members here who know a lot about finishing, they'll post suggestions soon enough. Hope this helps.
:glasses9:
 
Not to hijack the thread, but Big Steve and Cagey.... BIG UPS to you guys for commenting on the devil's personal ball of crap.... I mean STEEL WOOL. That Shazam is..... Shazam. Ought to be illegal to use in ANY woodshop or luthier's place of work. I hate that stuff with the burning fire of a thousand suns! It's insidious, it gets into everything, and hurts my damn fingers. It crumbles and sheds and causes no end of problems in a shop where electric guitars come to be repaired. If you MUST use a metal wool - use brass wool. Thanks be to God who allowed that miracle fiber known as Scotchbrite to be invented, and I love the stuff. We should have a special holiday just for the guy who thought that stuff up. It's great! LONG LIVE SCOTCHBRITE! Steel wool - burn in hell.
 
Cagey said:
Ash, roasted or otherwise, is a pretty open-grained wood. If you don't fill it, you'll be left with a fairly rough grain that'll collect body oil, dead skin cells, dirt, and various other grunge and eventually look like hell.

True oil is a polymerized oil that needs to be applied in thin coats. If you apply enough to do any filling, it won't cure well, if at all. It's not a highly durable finish to begin with; you certainly don't want it to not cure.

So, if you wanna oil it, I'd highly recommend grain-filling it so you have a level surface that'll take about a dozen even coats. Grain filler, if you're not familiar with it, is not like the "wood filler" you get in a can for repairing dented/gouged/damaged wood. It's much thinner, about the consistency of latex paint. You spread it on, scuff the excess off with a hard squeegee or a wad of burlap, wait for it to dry, and sand it smooth with some 320 grit. For something as porous as Ash, you may have to do that twice or three times before the surface is good and level.

At that point, you can start with the dreaded true oil. Thin coats. Wipe on, wipe off. Takes about a dozen coats. Finish will look great when you're done. For a little while, anyway.

Also, never ever use steel wool on a wood finishing project unless you're some kind of self-loathing masochist hell-bent on personal suffering  :laughing7:
  thanks for the actual useful input (unlike that salty, rusty trombone aircap) can i ask why you say dreaded truoil? is it really that terrible of a finish for guitars? I've only used the spray nitro cans from reranch and had some good results, but wanted to try something different.
 
(unlike that salty, rusty trombone aircap)

What you actually meant was, "I respect your 40 years at the bench as a Gibson and Fender authorized repairman". Right?
 
AirCap said:
(unlike that salty, rusty trombone aircap)

What you actually meant was, "I respect your 40 years at the bench as a Gibson and Fender authorized repairman". Right?
  i don't respect people who are disrespectful to strangers who are trying to learn something new for no reason, regardless of your experience. kindly remove yourself from this thread. thanks
 
Not sure I'd bother with the sanding sealer, just slap as many coats of Tru-Oil as you want/until you get bored (My autocorrect correct tried to change Tru-Oil to: Trump-oil  :toothy11:), I did lightly sand down with fine wire wool, I'm not sure that's really needed except to bring down any lumpy bits to be honest.

Right, now to have my Coffee. Not decafe.  :eek:ccasion14:
 
Here is a video using the apply Tru Oil with sanding method.  I would tend towards using thinner coats and more of them over time. For ash, I would start with the Birchwood Casey Gun Stock Clear Sealer & Filler to fill the grain quicker before moving onto the TruOil itself.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0ZOoCGZMQc[/youtube]

And you can use finer than 220 with tru oil.
 
iamthewolf11 said:
can i ask why you say dreaded truoil? is it really that terrible of a finish for guitars? I've only used the spray nitro cans from reranch and had some good results, but wanted to try something different.

"Dreaded" is too strong a word and really just a lame attempt on my part at humor through mild exaggeration. Because I've seen some fantastic polymerized oil finishes, I know they're possible. But, the "fantastic" ones have been few and far between and required a great deal of effort to achieve, and even then they're still not very durable. Musical instruments are a bit like automobiles in that they're hardworking tools that are also part artwork and part personal statement whose operating environment can be brutal. That means relative to other materials, polymerized oils usually aren't the ideal choice of finish. They're better suited to things that are handled less often and with more care, like display art.
 
stratamania said:
And you can use finer than 220 with tru oil.
I'm really surprised that he sanded down to 600 before the first oil coat.i As I mentioned above, I've never used Tru-Oil on a a guitar, but I've used other polymerizing oils, (usually Watco), many times on furniture and other projects. I was taught that going below 200-320 before the first oiling was counterproductive, not only as an impediment to absorption, but because it was easier to get a very smooth finish by fine sanding after the first coat had a chance to set up. I do the same thing on most shop projects that get poly. A light sanding, maybe to 100, a thin coat of poly, then finish sand to whatever I need. Negates the need for a separate sanding sealer. Oh well, live and learn....
 
BigSteve22 said:
A light sanding, maybe to 100, a thin coat of poly, then finish sand to whatever I need. Negates the need for a separate sanding sealer. Oh well, live and learn...

Tonar calls it a "wash coat". Same deal. Seals the wood. Although, on musical instrument finishes, you'd more likely sand to 220 or 320. Still leaves enough "tooth" but allows for a slightly thinner finish as you're doing less filling and maybe you shoot a coat or two less.
 
Cagey said:
Although, on musical instrument finishes, you'd more likely sand to 220 or 320. Still leaves enough "tooth" but allows for a slightly thinner finish as you're doing less filling and maybe you shoot a coat or two less.
Understood, the 100 grit pre-sanding is generally for utility stuff, (bench fixtures, outdoor projects for the wife), tables and such get a finer treatment, 220-320 depending on my mood and how it's coming along. I gotta say, that walnut tele looked pretty good from where I'm sitting. Wish there were better photos of the finished product, I love guitar porn!  :icon_jokercolor:
 
ya i havent sanded it yet. i won't go past 320 when i do! so i was thinking about filling the grain with dark filler on the roasted ash then just tru oil. would that look sick or should i just do a clear filler? also I'm going to be working on that roasted ash j bass and an alder jaguar. for the jag I'm going to dye the wood black, seal it then use white gel stain, or liming wax to dye only the grain white. I'm looking for a pinstripe type finish
 
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