Help with Finish on a Black Korina VIP

[shasmo]

Hey All!

I am brand new to this forum and building my first guitar, so go easy  .

Just received my Black Korina on Mahogany VIP and super psyched about building it out. I have been wanting to do a Tru-Oil finish, so i sanded the body down to a 600 and just applied my first coat of Tru oil. I have to say, i am not a fan of the "olive" hue that tru oil has on Black Korina. Plus, i think i wasn't thorough with my sanding, so i can see imperfections in how the wood is soaking up the oil. Couple of questions....

1) Do i sand it back down to get rid of the imperfections or proceed with more coats? If i sand it down, what grit should i use and how i ensure that i am thorough before i apply the finish ?
2) If i choose to stick with Tru-oil, does the "olive" hue change after a few coats? how can i get it to have an amber hue ?

Or... since i have one coat on, am i hosed and need to keep going ?!?!  :dontknow:

 

[AirCap]

Why did you sand it? Warmoth already sanded to a fine surface. All you need to do is finish it.

 

[shasmo]

I guess the open pores on the Korina led me to sand it further.. Either ways, Any ideas on how to get an amber hue with tru-oil? Do i need to use a dye?

 

[BigSteve22]

I guess the open pores on the Korina led me to sand it further.. Either ways, Any ideas on how to get an amber hue with tru-oil? Do i need to use a dye?

That olive color isn't the Truoil, it's the Korina:

Just the nature of the wood. Some more olive than others......  :sign13:

 

[shasmo]

Thanks, that's a beautiful finish... I might sand down the first coat and start over again. Any suggestions on dyes for Korina? Based on some reading on the forum, korina might not take dyes very well due to its oily nature. Any suggestions if I should use a colored filler instead?

 

[BigSteve22]

Thanks, that's a beautiful finish... I might sand down the first coat and start over again. Any suggestions on dyes for Korina? Based on some reading on the forum, korina might not take dyes very well due to its oily nature. Any suggestions if I should use a colored filler instead?

Sorry dude, no idea about dyeing Korina. That's a clear poly on natural Korina in the picture. Just posted it to give you an idea of how a clear coated Korina will look.

 

[AirCap]

Don't sand it. Strip it. Use a chemical stripper and some Scotchbrite. Or buy a cabinet scraper and stop once you are getting wood shavings.

 

[dmraco]

Korina does not dye well unless you are spraying on a finish. 
It will never be perfectly smooth unless you grain fill then clear.  The pores are too deep on korina.  Unless your add dozens of coat of tru oil. 

I have not worked with tru oil so I cannot comment capatability with fillers

 

[shasmo]

Thanks everyone. I might just strip it and use a clear poly.

 

[Cagey]

I've dyed black Limba successfully without any heroic measures. But, as has been pointed out, it's a pretty open-grained wood so you can sand it until the cows come home and it's never going to get a level surface. You have to use a grain filler. It's not a putty or anything like that, it's sorta like a high viscosity coating that you apply and squeegee off, then sand to remove any imperfections.

Usually, you seal the wood with a wash coat or a sanding sealer to prevent the wood from absorbing the filler, apply it, sand it back, and see if you're happy. With some woods, like Mahogany, Swamp Ash or Korina, you might need a second application to get the surface as level as needed for a fine finish surface.

Once you're there, you can stain if desired, or apply color coats, then clear coats. Finish sand and buff out, and smile at the sky.

This is a black Korina VIP I did a few years back that I dyed a dark red before applying clear lacquer...

 

[stratamania]

In addition to what has mentioned above, after applying a stain you can also use Birchwood Casey's Sealer and Filler product a couple of times to help seal and fill the grain. Then you can carry on building up layers of Tru Oil. A light sanding in between some of the coats helps to get an even finish.

 

[dmraco]

could he seal on top of the tru oil?  same some time sanding?


I really like that VIP Cagey, although the white pickups bother me. :toothy11:

 

[shasmo]

Awesome Guitar Cagey! Thanks for the advice! i am going to use a grain filler and maybe the Behlen Solar Lux NGR dye that i have from a previous project. It goes on very transparent and might help pop the black Korina grain. Will try it on a scrap first. Anybody use that dye before?

 

[Cagey]

could he seal on top of the tru oil?  same some time sanding?
I really like that VIP Cagey, although the white pickups bother me. :toothy11:

Actually, because of the Tru Oil, it may not need to be sealed now. But, it may need to sit for a while to cure as far as possible, lest it soften or repel any subsequent finish. I don't know. I don't have a great deal of experience in recent years with polymerized oils because I don't consider them to be a suitable finish for a guitar. Too fragile. Usually you only see that stuff used on guitars when the owner is forced to due to a lack of equipment or a good place to spray. Once in a while you'll see some fantastic results, but it's a lotta work to get there and and they're like flowers - beautiful when they're fresh, but doomed to early "relic" appearance.

Those "white" pickups are actually cream, but the sun was working hard the days those shots were taken so they're looking pretty bright. In real life, they looked pretty good. They're old EMGs I bought on a whim. Never did wire them up, so I have no idea what they sounded like. I sold that body to another member here - maybe he'll pipe up and report on how they sound.

 

[Cagey]

Awesome Guitar Cagey! Thanks for the advice! i am going to use a grain filler and maybe the Behlen Solar Lux NGR dye that i have from a previous project. It goes on very transparent and might help pop the black Korina grain. Will try it on a scrap first. Anybody use that dye before?

I haven't used that particular dye before, but I'm sure it'll be fine. It's essentially a solvent-based metal tint that's been pre-reduced, so it's pretty persistent and easy to use. Usually when you buy tints they're more highly concentrated and they leave the reducer chemistry up to you, but that higher concentration means you have to be a lot more careful about mixing as you can go too far pretty easily. Reducers usually aren't critical with dyes, whether you go water or solvent based is more a personal preference, or in some cases a concern depending on what you're coloring. It's usually poor practice to get wood wet with water as it can raise the grain, while more volatile solvents work out ok because they boil off so fast. But, if you're going to be sanding the surface anyway, sometimes a raised grain isn't an issue.

 

[shasmo]

Thanks again Cagey. will a little bit of elbow grease i was able to get it back to wood and was able to remove the sanding scratches by careful sanding. It does look like the pores are more filled out, might not need the grain filler. I will test out the dye on my scrap piece and see how it does. Thanks everyone, its great community here! I am learning a lot as i go . I'll keep the thread posted with updates.

 

[Cagey]

I should mention that fine finishes are all about surface preparation, and grain filler is used to make things easier, saving you time and money as well as providing a better finishing surface. Without it, you'll find you're putting a number of additional coats of finish on, having to sand between each one in order to get to a fine finish. So, you spend more time and use more material than you would if you'd filled it. So, you don't have to use a grain filler, but unless you're a glutton for punishment, you probably shouldn't skip it.

 

[AirCap]

Red Korina.... DAMN.

 

[Cagey]

She's pretty, yes?  :laughing7:

Lotta junk in the trunk, though. Solid Korina is heavy stuff. Plus, that's a burnished Bloodwood neck with black Ebony 'board and gold frets, too. Thing played like a dream, but weighed a ton. I still have the neck - put it on a candy cola Strat body.

 

[stratamania]

I can't see why you would not be able to use Birchwood Casey's Sealer and Filler on top of the already applied tru-oil. I could test it on some scrap and report back in a day or two.