Global warming... sick of hearing about it, but how about a non BS version?

[elfro89]

Totally guys I think this topic is getting out of hand a bit and not in good community spirit. I think this discussion should end here. Unless anyone has anything significant they want to say, I think its safe to say its pissed a lot of people off and serves no further purpose.

Peace and love and all that jazz. Back to music and guitars!  :toothy10:  :rock-on:

 

[Alfang]

Well I just read the whole thread and didn't get offended by anyone, While I would agree that maybe the point hasn't been prooven that mankind is driving global warming.

GoDrex is correct that we should err on the side of caution and make clean emissions in industry and automobiles, the only thing that hurts is the speed at which we convert our current activities.

NASA talks about creating an environment, atmosphere on Mars. if things get obvious here on earth, I trust that mankind can collectivly figure it out, ie... create ozone generators or whatever it takes to slowly correct our influence on the planets health.

I don't think we should panic, as Jack said it's probably too late too stop it, but as the warming continues over time, we can figure out a solution.

This is a good thread, I don't think it needs to be removed. It's really a good reflection of the actual arguments being made arround the world. If someones opinion offends you, either ignore, or make a pollite compelling argument against.

No reason for anyone here to get uptight, we're really all friends here. except max, no one like him, just kidding, Max will be president someday, I would even let max take my daughter on a date, shes 15 max and a real cutie, have her back by 10:00

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

That was probably always going to happen with a thread like this, because the idea that climate change is in debate is a political idea, not a scientific one. The science is clear, and apart from a vocal minority, pretty much undebated - the Earth is getting hotter, and it's because of human influence. The idea that legitimate scientists are arguing about whether or not it's going on is purely a political idea. It's pretty much split like this:

Don't be drawn into the trap of thinking that because there are two points of view, they are equally valid. They are not, and do not deserve equal consideration.

Just because a majority of top minds, and I don't think it's a big majority, agree it's man made doesn't make anything true.  In the scope of mankind, the majority of top minds not too long ago insisted the earth was flat.  And yes, the for or against usually denotes political affiliation.

 

[AGWAN]

the majority of top minds not too long ago insisted the earth was flat. 

Yeah, but those "top minds" were appointed for largely social reasons to positions that were generally controlled by mildly inbred Monarchies.

And not for their proven abilities to process data constructively.

and they all lacked mountains of Empirical data to draw conclusions from.

we NOW live in a time where scientists have to prove they're (some version of) intelligent to make a living. and we live in a time where data is finite. many people, drawing similar conclusions on the climate in different countries all over earth should raise a red flag.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

More recently, in this enlightened scientific age where popular science is left to merit and sponsored by those with no political agenda (I'm joking), we've seen the ozone scare come and go, and like I mentioned earlier, 30 years ago it was the popular belief we were headed for another ice age very soon.  The masses and the experts are always wrong.  Look at economists and dieticians.  Coffee is bad, no it's good.  Bran is essential, wait it does nothing.  The .com market can only go up.

 

[AGWAN]

  The masses and the experts are always wrong. 

With logic like that, you will always be right. :rock-on:

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

Believe it or not, I care little about being right for the sake of global catastrophe.  It's just been my observation that prevailing beliefs come and go, so I try not to get too caught up in them.  Look in textbooks, the Earth and dinosaurs age millions of years every decade and no one is ever right about future predictions.  Not doomsday groups, the media, or the experts.  Every new discovery always dispells the old belief. 

 

[Mor Paul]

No reason for anyone here to get uptight, we're really all friends here. except max, no one like him, just kidding, Max will be president someday, I would even let max take my daughter on a date, shes 15 max and a real cutie, have her back by 10:00

This thread can continue now.

 

[Jusatele]

Beanie Babies
Asteroids striking the earth
.coms
Gold
Ice Age
Global warming
Nostradamus
Baseball cards
Cold war
Kennedy Assassination
Communism
Amway
War on Drugs
liberal or conservative
Which religion is the true religion

None of these have an answer because none of them are based in fact, they are all ideas that they have used to control the masses. What they do is get us so caught up in these ideas we take out eyes off the truth of what is happening around us.

You know, society has always had issues such as these and always will, getting upset about one side or the other is useless because 20 years down the road, nothing will have been done about any of it because they are all just ways to keep our minds occupied and off the subject.

So, why worry and lose years off your life in stress?

Go buy more Warmoth parts and assemble axes and play more.

works for me.

Seriously, I have seen guys get so upset over either side of issues like this they are ready to kill each other, and in the end, both were wrong. I figure if it really mattered someone would do something about it, but we have a patch of trash the size of a State in the middle of the ocean killing wild life, we have developing countires polluting areas that made the American pollution Pre 70s look like a minor oil drip from a car. We are denuding the rain forest by thousands of acres a day and I am told to plant a tree and save the planet.

I have a tankless water heater system to save water and energy
I have solar cells on my roof
I ripped out my front yard and put in Gravel and cactus to save water
I have retrofitted one of the most efficient Central air and heating system on the market
Most of the lighting in my house is Led savings in energy makes florescent look like bad lighting energy wasters
I use the clothes line whenever possible over a dryer
and one of the leaders of the environmental arena this year bought a house that uses the energy of 10 normal houses (AL GORE)
but he tells me I have not done enough

they strip mine coal to make electricity destroying the land, when they burn it they release huge amounts of co2 and sulfur into the environment, but I am asked to buy a gar that uses this source of energy (electric) for 35 thou plus instead of using a car that gets 35 MPG from a form of energy that does not use strip mining or release sulfur.
Hybrid cars have a by product that is a toxic waste, the batteries that do not last that long. And yet I am told to buy one and use it.
They want to tell us that hydrogen fuel is the way of the future, so we use up Hydrogen and where do we get water from?
We produce huge dams to produce so called environmentally friendly electricity, but now we have seen the collapse of the salmon fisheries and the rivers down stream no longer get their flood cycles and the environments are being destroyed.
We create huge sprawling urban cities that are just heat generating climate changers and I am told to move into one and save our country side from to many residences.

 

[Jusatele]

I  run a 1967 jeep when I go out exploring, I am told it is a gross polluter, yet it is 43 years old, has only 80 thousand on the clock, and gets close to 20 MPG, I ask if I buy a new jeep, to get 17 MPG, plus the environmental cost to produce a new vehicle, would I not be going backward? would less MPG be a bad thing? would not the cost of production and the cost of recycling the old jeep far out weigh any savings?
I am saving a huge amount of water by not having a yard, but the state just redid a Freeway intersection and I noticed they are using?
a 2 inch line to feed the irrigation to it, So if they tell me to take out my lawn and make it water wise, why are they using all the savings in 1 month to water their landscape every day?


I got into a fender bender the other day with a city car, He was at fault, without a court case my insurance paid off as it was cheaper than fighting the city so my insurance rate goes up.  I am not allowed to fight it or they cancel me.

I live a greener lifestyle than most of the people in this country, I actually volunteer about 20 Saturdays a year to do work in the National forest in replanting burn sites, weeding out invasive species, working in nurseries of native plants to be planted. yet I am told because I own a Jeep, and like to go out traveling preestablished jeep trails that I am destroying the forest. I stay on trails.

My personal experience with all of this, global warming, environmental issues,, economy, space issues, the government and religion is that NO ONE is correct, each and everyone is wrong. We have no truth as it is set down nowhere what we need to do.

Show me the answers in hard fact
what religion is correct? After all each one believes just as hard that theirs is, And each believe their book of mythology is the truth, so not using a bible, koran, Edda, or what ever prove which is correct
What political party is correct? That is the problem, again built on belief, it cannot be proved
What way to go on the environment? I think anyway is wrong, we past the population threshold years ago. it no longer is a environmental issue, it is a population issue.
Why do I change my lifestyle so the leaders do not have to change theirs?
Why should I have to pay outrageous taxes to support lavish parties in Washington when they say they cannot extend jobless benefits in this economy but still have a national Xmas tree?
Where is the justice?
where is the truth in the fact we pay out Billions a year in foreign aide so these countries do not need to tax their businesses and we lose jobs to them?

The issues are not Global warming, it is not religious Terrorism, it is not economic collapse, it is all about gathering money from us and living the high life, as we stress out and pay them to make it better, but they offer no solutions, Burning dirty energy, or using up our water does not stop the pollution from our cars, it just transfers it somewhere else.

the only science we need to invest in is the science of the truth. Not a science of swap out.

 

[Superlizard]

My opinion on Global Warming:

Go F yourself, Al Gore (aka The Goracle).

"Carbon credits"?  "Carbon footprint tax"?

See how they take bullsh!te, create something out of it and even introduce custom terminology for it?

And then they make ridiculous movies like this to push their agenda:

http://apexnewsnetwork.com/27600/exploding-student-movie-withdrawn-by-eco-activists-after-complaints/

Exploding Student Movie Withdrawn By Eco Activists after Complaints

By Melanie R. on October 2, 2010

A mini movie made by environmental group 10 10 has been withdrawn after people complained that a scene in which a teacher blows up two students is too graphic and in bad taste.

The clip was scripted by Richard Curtis, who wrote Four Weddings and a Funeral and Black Adder and X Files star Gillian Anderson narrates.

Apart from exploding school children the full version of the piece features exploding office workers and former Tottenham Hotspur soccer player David Ginola is blown up by members of the current team including Peter Crouch after they refuse to do their bit to combat climate change. The end also sees Anderson herself blown up when she to is not fully cooperative...

For some people nutjobs, it's the religion of Global Warming.

Just another way to separate the Average Joe from the money in his wallet.

If you believe in Global Warming (in the "Day After Tomorrow" movie sense), then I've got some oceanfront property
down here in Tucson I'd likes ta sell ya.

 

[Superlizard]

we've seen the ozone scare come and go

Exactly - I distinctly recall the Chicken Little cries of, "there's a huge hole in the ozone layer!  We're all gonna DIE!!!" back
in the early 90s.

Don't hear much about said hole nowadays...

 

[Superlizard]

the only thing that has been a constant since life first form has been death.

...and taxes.

As in "Carbon Footprint taxes".

 

[richship]

They want to tell us that hydrogen fuel is the way of the future, so we use up Hydrogen and where do we get water from?

You don't use up Hydrogen. The by-product of burning it is water.

A good way to extract hydrogen from water is by solar power. Clean energy all around.

 

[Jusatele]

They want to tell us that hydrogen fuel is the way of the future, so we use up Hydrogen and where do we get water from?

You don't use up Hydrogen. The by-product of burning it is water.

A good way to extract hydrogen from water is by solar power. Clean energy all around.

DO not let them pull the wool over your eyes
The by product of burning hydrogen is the use of all the hydrogen,
because of the reaction,some hydrogen recombines with oxygen and water pours out the tail pipe, but in reality they are burning hydrogen.
Now as we burn hydrogen, do we not use up 2/3ds of the molecule that makes water?
and when we burn all the hydrogen, where do we get the water from to drink? sucking on the dregs left in our tail pipes?
Do not let them fool you. we use up one source or another.  water or oil, which would you rather have left over? you cannot drink crude oil.
Burning hydrogen is not sustainable, it uses up all the water.
Water is a basis of life.

 

[AGWAN]

WOAH WOAH WOAH!

When someone involves beanie babies... I know shnitz about to hit the fan, I'm out.

 

[Jusatele]

AGWAN, about 17 years ago, millions of people were spending their fortunes on beanie babies, they would sell out the day they were released.
Why?
Because they were suppose to be what you invested in to quadruple your money. It seemed they sold for more than you could buy them for. and guys bought every one they could, till everyone figured out that they were only collectible to collectors. and no one else cared, then suddenly they were not worth 25 cents each, and some guys owned thousands of them. The guys who bought in lost fortunes.
You can now buy sacks full of beannie babies for a 1/4 of what you paid for just 1 15 years ago, most guys have to pay to get rid of them.

 

[richship]

DO not let them pull the wool over your eyes
The by product of burning hydrogen is the use of all the hydrogen,
because of the reaction,some hydrogen recombines with oxygen and water pours out the tail pipe, but in reality they are burning hydrogen.
Now as we burn hydrogen, do we not use up 2/3ds of the molecule that makes water?

No we do not. Burning is just a chemical process. No atoms are destroyed, just rearranged.

 

[Jusatele]

so we rearange hydrogen and do not have hydrogen anymore, same thing isn't it.

 

[richship]

we've seen the ozone scare come and go

Exactly - I distinctly recall the Chicken Little cries of, "there's a huge hole in the ozone layer!  We're all gonna DIE!!!" back
in the early 90s.

Don't hear much about said hole nowadays...

A fickle media's attention to a subject is not very informative.

As for as ozone is concerned, a culprit (CFCs) was identified. The production and release of them was reduced to near-zero. People are monitoring to see the effect. It seems to be getting better slowly. The level of proof will never be enough for some, but it seems like a good example of international cooperation on an issue.